Increasing turn speed

[Greybeard]

It seems to me that it would be appropriate for the game host to contact players who are habitually late and ask them if they could submit earlier. Perhaps they have a real life situation that keeps them from submitting earlier, but they may just be procrastinators %^).
If it's explained the them that usually they are delaying the turn by about "x" hours after the next to Last submitter, they may be willing to "try harder" and submit earlier. It would certainly be worth a try...Greybeard

[Ruatha]

I belive all your points are valid.
But the system I proposed is to make sure that the game isn't bogged down.
I like 72 hours deadline, it gives you opportunity tto be away sometimes.
But it also means that if everyone but 1-3 players upload within 48 hours, they will have to wait another ~24 hours for the Last players to upload.
Normally that won't be a problem if it is temporarily, but what to do if those 1-3 players constantly waits until there is 1-2 hours left of the turntime, it gets frustrating.

Setting -50 pts less than the one above means that one player has to be Last at atleast 25 turns in a row and everyone else has to shift around, before anyone can actually become in the dangerzone of getting kicked.
The +3/-3 pts means that no one ever has to be kicked, but when you see that you are closing in on the limit you either have to do faster turns or quit the game. To constantly be Last in a 20 player game takes either "luck" or "skill", it is not something that "happens" becourse of timezones
or short episodes of RL issues or a three weeks vacation from the game (3 weeks missed turns = -14 pts).

I want the possibility to have long turn time when needed but a motivation to avoid it if not needed, 20 player games can be quicker than 6 player games if all players are motivated.

In NGC3 it's not such a big problem as it might look from my post here, but in case I ever start a new game I would like to have a system ahead to avoid any such problems.

In NGC3 I hope all players will stick in there for (years?) the time the game will take, so there is no real rush (So if anyone feels targeted by this thread, disregard it!)
I just find the start game when I build up the empire very enjoyable so I'd rather have a 20 player game where everyone uploads before me!

I guess I could play single player, but whats the fun in that???

Any relative limit set can be -50 or -100 pts, meaning there will propably be 200-300 turns before anyone gets kicked becourse of this "turn upload league" (in a 20 player game), and then that player must have really been much slower in uplaoding than all the rest, and have had ample warning many turns ahead.

So other than setting a short turntime, or onlyallowing known fast players, I don't see what will work.
The friendly reminder or extra "spare time" outside of the turn time might work, but it might not.
The split turn time seems a bit complicated, I'll have to think about that.
The friendly reminders have a short duration.

Again, In NGC3 something as has been described in this thread will not be used, please, noone take offense, I'm glad you are all in the game!!!

[ June 05, 2003, 22:22: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[Roanon]

I think the point system would work better if you define a time period where no one will get minus points if submitting within. Even if Last submitter. Only give minus points if Last submitters are past a certain deadline. Doesn't make sense to award penalties if the game ist running at a speed of 1 turn / hour

[ June 05, 2003, 22:31: Message edited by: Roanon ]

[PvK]

Yeah.

Also different players and different games have different requirements.

PvK

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by Ruatha:
Normally that won't be a problem if it is temporarily, but what to do if those 1-3 players constantly waits until there is 1-2 hours left of the turntime, it gets frustrating.

Setting -50 pts less than the one above means that one player has to be Last at atleast 25 turns in a row and everyone else has to shift around, before anyone can actually become in the dangerzone of getting kicked.

That is only true if the point count is reset completely whenever you get a point score of greater than or equal to zero - if you will recal, my analysis for people turning in turns made no mention of what order a player gets the wins in - a player coming in 5th, 5th, 3rd, then 5th is functionally identical to that same player coming in 3rd, 5th, 5th, 5th or 5th, 5th, 5th, 3rd. Likewise, timezone issues (as Fyron mentioned) can seriously slant someone's order chances.

Originally posted by Ruatha:

The +3/-3 pts means that no one ever has to be kicked, but when you see that you are closing in on the limit you either have to do faster turns or quit the game. To constantly be Last in a 20 player game takes either "luck" or "skill", it is not something that "happens" becourse of timezones

Timezones are fairly permanent states, and could concievably cause such things.

Originally posted by Ruatha:

or short episodes of RL issues or a three weeks vacation from the game (3 weeks missed turns = -14 pts).

I want the possibility to have long turn time when needed but a motivation to avoid it if not needed, 20 player games can be quicker than 6 player games if all players are motivated.

In NGC3 it's not such a big problem as it might look from my post here, but in case I ever start a new game I would like to have a system ahead to avoid any such problems.

In NGC3 I hope all players will stick in there for (years?) the time the game will take, so there is no real rush (So if anyone feels targeted by this thread, disregard it!)
I just find the start game when I build up the empire very enjoyable so I'd rather have a 20 player game where everyone uploads before me!

I guess I could play single player, but whats the fun in that???

Any relative limit set can be -50 or -100 pts, meaning there will propably be 200-300 turns before anyone gets kicked becourse of this "turn upload league" (in a 20 player game)

That many players should allieviate the "always Last" problem considerably, true. However, multiplying the relative threshold only multiplies the number of turns it takes to reach it by that same number.

Originally posted by Ruatha:
, and then that player must have really been much slower in uplaoding than all the rest, and have had ample warning many turns ahead.

So other than setting a short turntime, or onlyallowing known fast players, I don't see what will work.
The friendly reminder or extra "spare time" outside of the turn time might work, but it might not.

You might also consider a set amount of grace time that any given player can expend over a given number of turns, reset every arbitrary number of turns - e.g. if you set the grace time to 12 hours per 100 turns, player A can come in three hours late on turn 6, four hours late on turn 50, but then if they come in 6 hours late on turn 99, they have a problem (3 + 4 + 6 = 13). However, if they come in six hours late on turn 101, they have started over on a new slate, and are fine. This could be difficult to implement (lots of book-keeping), but you would never need to wait longer than the specified maximum grace time after the deadline; but if everyone is in (or those that aren't are out of time) you can still run the turn.

Originally posted by Ruatha:

The split turn time seems a bit complicated, I'll have to think about that.
The friendly reminders have a short duration.

Again, In NGC3 something as has been described in this thread will not be used, please, noone take offense, I'm glad you are all in the game!!!

[Narrew]

Hey!!! What about MY poo? I swear it don't stink. and since it don't stink, it shouldn't be ignored... I mean who could ignore a stick with poo on the end?

[ June 06, 2003, 00:07: Message edited by: Narrew ]

[Ruatha]

Originally posted by Jack Simth:

That is only true if the point count is reset completely whenever you get a point score of greater than or equal to zero - if you will recal, my analysis for people turning in turns made no mention of what order a player gets the wins in - a player coming in 5th, 5th, 3rd, then 5th is functionally identical to that same player coming in 3rd, 5th, 5th, 5th or 5th, 5th, 5th, 3rd. Likewise, timezone issues (as Fyron mentioned) can seriously slant someone's order chances.

Timezones are fairly permanent states, and could concievably cause such things.

There are no timezone differences of 72 hours!
If someone in one timezone is alone there and therefore submitts Last, he has the chance of being first in the next turn!
There are a net inflow of zero points unless two or more misses a turn, if there are 5 or less players the system will be abandonded. ( I haven't fully set myself into your calculations, Sorry, will do that later... )

The "free timeperiod" was a good idea, say 48 hours free period and counting negatives only in the Last 24?

Also, the supporters of poo on the stick seems loud, this might be the winning idea!
(As noone seems to be positive to the "turn submission league" I'll drop it )

[ June 06, 2003, 04:56: Message edited by: Ruatha ]