this is a thread to attract SE4 forumers to the first Dungeon Oddessy roleplay thread

[Krsqk]

I think I'm in agreement with you. No inherent strengths without balancing weaknesses, and vice-versa. No arbitrary racialgood/evil, although cultural good/evil is acceptable. No "humans mop up the board" stuff. Does that about cover it?

I do think that across the board, the average human's strengths/weaknesses would be less min/maxed. However, I also think that the human race would have more distant extremes and a vastly wider variety of skills present in any randomly chosen subset. In other words, there really would be no racially-determined human trait--the "average" skill level is only obtained by averaging all humans.

I mean, don't create an NPC which does not interact well with a PC without first checking with that PC. I would also be careful with the scenario you gave, though--I think the less racial determinations are messed with, the better. Some generalizations such as "Most elves are faster than most orcs" would be fine, but things with strong in-story effects should be related to the character rather than the race where possible (even if they are overall true for the race)--it leaves more flexibility for both your own PC and other PCs when writing.

ok, everything but the dragon is fine.
how are you going to balance that?

The dragon is afraid of mice.

[ July 09, 2003, 06:27: Message edited by: Krsqk ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

well, humans do tend to be more varied than most fantasy races. how about we try to change that?

[Krsqk]

Let's see if I have this right. Every race is varied, with only the slightest (if any) racial modifiers. Instead, modifiers should be cultural and/or character-specific where possible.

OT: did you see my response to your OOC? Which were you concerned about?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

well, for an example, why should all dwarves be strong and stout? that sort of thing.

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
ok, i don't know what happened to my original post on this, i couldn't find it.

posted July 05, 2003 22:54 in the Roleplay thread, edited July 07, 2003, 16:26; the full quote:

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
ooc:[Narp will awake if there's any sounds of a fight. new proposal:no evil or good races, no supeirer or inferior races. in other words, no 'standard' elves or orcs, etc.]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:


i have no objection to different races.

i do object to 'elves are good, orcs are evil'. elven culture might be good, in focussing on learning and peace, but like you said, that would be there culture.

i don't object to strengths and weaknesses.

i do object to 'elves are superior, orcs are inferior'. in other words, if elves are long-lived, gracefull and inheritly skilled at everything, it's because they spend a lot of time studying life-extension and body-manipulation magics, which would give them extensive weaknesses elsewhere - perhaps more than if they took a more balanced approach.

Okay - I was reading you a bit off of your intent, then; my bad.

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:

regarding humans, i do object to the 'humans are somehow superior and have no specific strengths and weaknesses' attitude.

In much of the fiction on the subject, humans mostly just ended up overrunning the other races by force of numbers; long lifespans lead to low birthrates, so it takes the elves millenia to recover from a war, but only decades for humans. Humanity usually ends up with less culture and skill than Elves or Dwarves, but the numbers make up for it. It's a difference, advantageous in war, disadvantageous in prolonged periods of peace (overpopulation).

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:

quote:

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I would tend to lean toward including non-human races. I would add that, as a matter of courtesy, one should only assign cultural traits to an NPC that negatively affect their own character.

huh? you mean, if your an elf, the npc is an elf, you shouldn't give all elves massive bow skills?

---

I suspect he means that If you are an Elf, and another is an Orc, you shouldn't give that NPC an intolerance of Orcs; just Elves.

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:

quote:

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Besides, if we don't have other races, how am I going to include that half-orc, half-dwarf dragon-riding mage-warrior?

ok, everything but the dragon is fine.

how are you going to balance that?

---

Dragon scales fetch a pretty penny at the market; there will be a lot of people trying to hunt the dragon down. Besides, the dragon is a pet. If it isn't too bright, someone might steal it....

---

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
ooc:[Krsqk, in your post you made a reference to relath. Jack is from another plane, so the only way you could know about him would be to be from the same plane.]

Krsqk made him up, not me. About the only personages I've named from Jack's home plane are Jack's Master, Yargoth and the tyrant mage Thozray whose overthrow resulted in the formation of the Council.

[ July 09, 2003, 06:41: Message edited by: Jack Simth ]

[Krsqk]

well, for an example, why should all dwarves be strong and stout? that sort of thing.

'Cause all the tall, skinny ones with glasses got laughed at and beat up? I agree with that point, as long as neither extreme is pushed (neither "All dwarves are like such and such" nor "There are no characteristics which are statistically identifiable as 'dwarvish/dwarfish.'") It would make sense that some characteristics would be shared throughout a race, just as much as they would be among families. And dwarves would be more distinguishable to each other than to other races (again, speaking in generalities).

[ July 09, 2003, 06:48: Message edited by: Krsqk ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

oh. silly me, i was looking here.

In much of the fiction on the subject, humans mostly just ended up overrunning the other races by force of numbers; long lifespans lead to low birthrates, so it takes the elves millenia to recover from a war, but only decades for humans. Humanity usually ends up with less culture and skill than Elves or Dwarves, but the numbers make up for it. It's a difference, advantageous in war, disadvantageous in prolonged periods of peace (overpopulation).

i suggest we average out everybodies lifespans, that smacks to much of individual superiority or infereority to me, which is also something i want to aviod - one elf better than one human. minatuar's, as i'm thinking of them, are and this is also up for discussion, 10-14 feet high and 1000-2000 pounds, with bony pads interconnected with something flexible for feet and looking vaguely bull-like, including a pair of horns. this would make them great formation fighter, as long as you din't get around to there sides, because they wouldn't be that agile and would give them a major disadvantage in rocky ground. plus, they could be hit more easily with range weapons. on the other hand, can you imagine a minatuar ballista?

for there culture, i'm thinking scattered villiges with them being recent arrivals.

the way i've been thinking of it, the plane where on is a sort of third world compared to Jack's. maybe we should compare impressions/what we've been aiming for?

I suspect he means that If you are an Elf, and another is an Orc, you shouldn't give that NPC an intolerance of Orcs; just Elves.

oh, so you don't give a npc something that will make that npc a disadvantage to another pc? makes sense now.

*kicks self*

[qoute]
Dragon scales fetch a pretty penny at the market; there will be a lot of people trying to hunt the dragon down. Besides, the dragon is a pet. If it isn't too bright, someone might steal it....
[/qoute]

aww, i want it afriad of mice...

ah well, there's always elephants...

neither "All dwarves are like such and such" nor "There are no characteristics which are statistically identifiable as 'dwarvish/dwarfish.'"

yep.

[ July 09, 2003, 07:02: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]