A thought on the Talisman / Live on Pay-Per-View: Geo vs. Fyron

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
I never once said that having the Talisman guarantees victory.

Correct, and noone here said you said it did. Why bring in unrelated comments like that at all? They just clutter up the discussion.

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
But, playing well (with fast expansion and such) combined with the Talisman does guarantee victory in most game situations (except when you get the other players to ally against you,

Well now, this is a few orders of magnitude less of an absulute statement then "Used correctly, the Talisman is an impossible trait to defeat." It is difficult to have a debate if you change your position in the middle with no warning.

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
which is nowhere near playing well at all, as diplomacy is a big part of a MP game). Playing well requires expanding faster than your neighbors and then being able to overwhelm them. Otherwise, it is not playing well, but at best playing adequately.

You are still going to have to explain to me how you can control the speed your opponent expands, excepting contested systems of course. You can play the best game you have ever played in your life, in fact you can play the second best game in the history of SE4 and still be behind you opponnent. And this somehow you define as not playing well? that makes no sense at all.

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

Even expanding as fast as them means you will still most likely be able to win with the Talisman because all else being equal, the Talisman ships will win in combat.

Again correct, and again no one made this claim. But getting into fights against a tailsman player where all else is equal is suicide. The same could be said of anything in the game.
All else being equal, the player with dreadnaughts will defeat the player with frigates every time.

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
You just have to form your own alliance and not get them to gang up on you.

As Gravey said, you can try. But you can't guarantee this. It depends on the experience of your opponents. If they are aware of teh effectivness of the Tailsman you will have an alliance of one, and that ain't gonna get you too far.

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

If you expand slower than them, you are certainly not playing well.

See above.

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

There is a certain point of no return that once you reach, victory is pretty much guaranteed. The Talisman makes reaching this point a lot easier, as your ships are extremely overpowered in combat.

Can't disagree with this, but I don't think anyone here was trying too. And it's again a far cry from your earlier unconditional declaration.

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

You can talk to them and use diplomacy to get some of them on your side. This prevents you from getting ganged up on by a bunch of enemies, as they will have to fight your allies too. So, if you make no effort to gather allies, you aren't playing the game very well, as no matter what, you will fall, talisman or no. Don't let them ally against you. Don't be an overly aggressive evil overlord, and you greatly increase your chances of not being seen as a huge threat.

Again you are talking about things totally out of your control and saying that you aren't playing well. That makes no sense.

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Now, if they still irrationally gang up on you and you never do anything in the game to threaten them, it is probably not a group of players you should play with again, as they are not interested in fair play, only winning at any cost.

And what's irrational about ganging up on the Tailsman player? If you intend to even try to win it's irrational not to gang up on them and get them out early because as you said yourself allowing them to Last till the point of no return is a pretty sure way to guarantee you will lose. Allying with the tailsman player is a sure way to guarantee second place at best. And who want's to be second?

Geoschmo

[ July 14, 2003, 22:01: Message edited by: geoschmo ]