A thought on the Talisman / Live on Pay-Per-View: Geo vs. Fyron

[Slynky]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Exactly right Loser. Q, I was suggesting a method to eliminate modding as a solution period. Of course your solution is very simple, but for the purposes of PBW play it would require something other than stock data files which is what I was trying to avoid. You can do it now by simply turning off the whole tech area, but some people think the economic facilities alone are enough of a reason to take the religious racial trait.

Geoschmo

I'm not sure I would. And, IMHO, a particularly offensive-prone player would lose a lot of the benefits by leaving his systems. Big deal with the event stuff---hardly anyone plays it in the games I've looked over. So, the best you are left with is added resource production if you lean toward an offensive game. (I'll confess I'm not a "student" or "expert" of the Religious trait, I've just played it a few times)

[ July 16, 2003, 19:18: Message edited by: Slynky ]

[Fyron]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
baron if that is a hard code it is a horrible idea....

why not just leave it to the modders...

It needs to be fixed in the unmodded game.

Originally posted by Geoschmo:
But basically he had come to the realisation his original statement was an exageration, he is just too proud to admit it publicly.

That has nothing to do with it. I still had some more to say, you just left prematurely.

[ July 16, 2003, 19:29: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[tesco samoa]

gee thanks fryon I never would have guessed that....

perhaps you can toss out one of your ideas that you have on it. :-p

Personally I think it should remain the same for the seiv game. As there are ways to deal with the unbalancing of the talisman by the modders and game setup.

SEV it should be resolved in concept before the game is released.

It is just one of those things that do not work. We all have learnt to live with the talisman.

[Suicide Junkie]

It needs to be fixed in the unmodded game.

Players need to be less hung up on using unmodded games.

[Fyron]

Only a small portion of those playing the game use mods (even on PBW, most games are unmodded). Using mods is not a problem, but mods are for different game styles and such. They should not be required to fix fundamental flaws in a game (such as the Talisman).

[tesco samoa]

I disagree with you there.

The talisman concept in the stock mod may be flawed.

That is all.

The game itself is not flawed because of the talisman.

Playing the game under normal conditions it is not a problem.

But when you factor in fqm maps , changing the default systems to greater than 100 then yes it becomes a problem

but then your not playing stock. and your playing a modified Version of stock.

Simply put there is no way to fix it without creating other balance problems.

So why not leave it as is since we can deal with it.

This will most likely be the Last patch... Do we want effort spent in this area when we ourselves can change it ???

And there are other aspects of the game that should be looked at.

Unless of course you have a solution you would like to share with us that balances the talisman once and for all

[Fyron]

There are a lot of ways to balance the Talismans out. Make it a mount, make it not have 100% guaranteed to hit, have it make the ship it is on easier to hit, etc. That is what the beta testers are for, to test these things out before they go public.

And yes, the Talisman issue makes the stock game flawed, as does the DUCS/PPBs/APBs (though esp. the PPBs), mines, fighters, PDCs/missiles, armor, etc. There are a lot of problems that are not hard to fix and should have been fixed in a patch for the game a long, long time ago. If you do not agree with a particular balance fix, you can always go and change it back. But for the rest of us that appreciate efforts to balance the game, the changes will have been done already and not require extra modding to make it better. Again, modding is not for fixing balance problems, but for creating whole new styles of play (ie: Pirates and Nomads, Proportions, Adamant's physical/magical/organic races, sci-fi mods, etc.). And of course you will never get 100% agreeance on any balance fix. But, that is irrelevant. MM does not have to please everyone. The lack of any attempts at balance changes is IMO more displeasing overall than not having them fixed in the way you want them fixed.