Philosophical Quandry: Piracy

[Fyron]

Theft and murder are universal absolutes.

Yes, they are universal absolutes. But, what is theft and what is murder is not absolute. What the view on the good/evil nature of these actions is not absoulte. This is where the relative nature of morality comes into play.

[Erax]

They left a hole in their system and are suffering the consequence. This model needs identity checking, or you're back to square one.

I use McAfee. My bad luck.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
So now you are being an elitist. My culture is better than yours, huh? Why is that? Where do you get the right to judge other cultures? Why is your view so much better?

Allright, I have to answer theese I suppose.

I am not talking about culture, I am talking about morals. As long as you culture doesn't violate morality there is nothing wrong with it. Even if it does I am not appointing myself judge jury and executioner here. I am not advocating some kind of forced adherance to my set of values. But I am also not going to simply click my teeth and say it's ok when it's not.

While we are at it Fyron though, you were the one who dreged up this whole discussion in the first place. You brought up the issue of morality. You asked if it was morally right. When I said it wasn't you started the tangent about what basis I have to say whose morals are right. If you don't want an answer, don't ask the question.

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
So Geo. If morals are absolute, your opinion then is most just don't know what moral is?

I'm thinking of all the fun cultures that think women or "not us" races having equal rights is immoral here, for example..

Once again I am not appointing myself the judge of all cultures. And I don't think most things that make up a culture fall into the Category of morals. But I would have to say that not treating all human beings as equals regardless of race or gender is immoral. Wouldn't you agree? Most reasonable people would.

Even in soceities where minorities are oppresed they redefine the terms as Fyron is attempting to do in order to justify it. They will also objectify the members of the oppresed class as a group. Almost universally though when dealing with an idnividual on a one on one basis they will instinctively have a realization that they are equals. This is why upper classes work so hard to keep the others "in their place", so that it's easier to avoid the damage to their own humanity that comes with relializing the person you are mistreating is a person just like you.

Geoschmo

[ July 11, 2003, 22:40: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[Fyron]

I have redefined no terms. I have only stated that the practices of morality in different cultures are not the same.

Also, I will have to repeat myself by saying that my original question had nothing to do with other cultures, but with US culture. Within a culture, morality is absolute. But outside of that culture, its moral values are not absolute, and they vary from culture to culture. I was never talking about oppressive cultures, but about morality in general. There are a near-infinite amounts of variations on moral issues that have nothing to do with oppression or killing.

The tangent I started was not related to the original question (as it was not asking about moral values in other cultures, just US culture), but to your statement that moraliy is absolutely static, which it is most certainly not.

[ July 11, 2003, 23:12: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

quote:

---

Theft and murder are universal absolutes.

Yes, they are universal absolutes. But, what is theft and what is murder is not absolute. What the view on the good/evil nature of these actions is not absoulte. This is where the relative nature of morality comes into play.

---

Well, then. This is a deep comment and not one that is easily dismissed I will agree. However, you yourself in your original statment established your acceptance that the practice was illegal. You even defined it as piracy, a statment I wouldn't neccesarily so so far as to say.

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Yes, it is beyond a shadow of a doubt illegal piracy. I am not asking about legality, but about morality. Is it wrong to do this? Why or why not?

You also later sought to keep the discussion on the issue of moarlity for our culture in the United States...

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
My question had nothing to do with other cultures, but with the culture in which we live (broad US culture).

So by your own statements making copies and distributing them is illegal. If it is illegal is it not theft? Are you saying it's illegal by some other basis but it is not theft? Is that how it can be illegal and not immoral?

Or are you sayign that theft is not immoral according to broad US culture?

I am not that suprised you are having problems with this though. These are the sorts of conundrums you find yourself in when you don't have moral absolutes.

Geoschmo

[Fyron]

Damn it... I guess you didn't see the "PLEASE WAIT" sign...

Geo, the very nature of your previous Posts directly implied that you were judging other cultural views and asserting that yours is absolutely superior (which you continue to do in the latter part of your Last post).

The fact that some people and some cultures choose to ignore or redefine the terms to ease their concseince merely means those people and cultures are immoral.

This is a prime example. Most moral issues have absolutely nothing to do with redefining terms or ignoring your specific (and relative) moral values, or with easing the conscience. Moral values are not absolute. You only think that their concseince needs easing because their views conflict with your own. I am sorry that everyone in the world does not think as you do.

In the past in European cultures, it was considered morally acceptable to marry at ages of around 14. In the US, this is generally found to be apprehensible (statutory rape and such applies here). Does that mean that those ancient European cultures were immoral? Did they redefine any terms? Did they attempt to ease their conscience? No, to all of the above. Going the other way, does that mean that we here in the US are immoral because we view it as wrong to marry under 18? Have we redefined any terms to attempt to ease our conscience? No. This is a good example of the relative nature of morality that directly contradicts your claims. Who is to say which view is the more morally correct one? You have made the claim that you have that right indirectly through the nature of your Posts. And then you attempt to backpeddle away from this by claiming you are not able to judge, but you already have done so.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Damn it... I guess you didn't see the "PLEASE WAIT" sign...

Fyron, I am tired of going around and around with you on every single issue. You win.

But watch your tone in the future.I had started my second post before your had completed your post, much less put in your "edit in progress" comment. It wasn't there for me to see, "damn it".

Geoschmo