OT: Carbon Dioxide races -> known vs unknown -> terraforming mars -> is or is not

Loser · #1 July 16th, 2003, 07:58 PM

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Originally posted by Taera:
i know very little of the later planets in the solar system

The outer planets are just too cold. No terraforming options out there.

Fyron · #2 July 16th, 2003, 08:46 PM

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Originally posted by Taera:
you're speaking of earth's chemistry and physics. You cannot claim that next solar system's physics arent different and that there are no other kinds of particles/elements there. there is a little too much "cannot" here because humans had not explored much outside the Earth. If realy, how can you know we wont find some unique element even deep in mars, in the asteroid belt or on Pluton?

Because matter is fundamentally ordered. It can not exist in bizarre new combinations, for all stable combinations exist on earth (naturally or in labs). Except, of course, those theorized stable 180 proton elements (anything past 118 or so (or is it 124?) is highly unstable and collapses within fractions of a second when produced in a lab), which are very unlikely to exist anywhere in nature.

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Originally posted by Jack Simth:

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Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Complex alien organisms that do not rely on oxygen could not rely on a single gas; they would have to use several things to fulfill all of the roles of oxygen.

And the problem with relying on multiple things is what, exactly?

The more things that have to be relied on when life is evolving, the less likely it is that it will evolve in that manner. I did not say it was impossible for such a thing to happen, just less likely.

Henk:

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If not oxygen but another molecule, that can generate sufficient amounts of energy in biological processes, was used in evolution, then life would have adapted to this situation, and proteins and other processes would have developed that would exploit this resource, making this molecule look "just perfect". Maybe then we would have laughed at the thought of oxygen-dependent life.

Yes, but what molecule would that be? It is all fine and well to make statements like that, but without any examples, it is meaningless.

DS:

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By the time you eliminate the ones that can only exist in a proton accelerator/ the centre of a star/ supernova/ black hole etc, you find that there are only about 100 or so elements actually available to Mother Nature for making life. We know the properties of all of those elements, and so we can make some pretty good assumptions about what aliens will be made of.

Exactly.

Oleg:

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It is mostly CO2 with some water vapor. N2 is not important for us to breath, Appolo astronauts used pure oxygen. Proved to be very dangerous though - Appolo 1.

I forget exactly how it benefits us, but nitrogen is used by some bacteria that live in our lungs to produce some proteins or somesuch that are vital to us. These substances can of course be ingested artificially.

Suicide Junkie · #3 July 16th, 2003, 10:36 PM

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Originally posted by Loser:

quote:
Originally posted by Taera:
i know very little of the later planets in the solar system

The outer planets are just too cold. No terraforming options out there.

Giant orbiting mirrors!
Lots of fusion reactors running off the H2 from the gas giants!
Move the planet!

Loser · #4 July 16th, 2003, 10:57 PM

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Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:

quote:
Originally posted by Loser:

quote:
Originally posted by Taera:
i know very little of the later planets in the solar system

The outer planets are just too cold. No terraforming options out there.
Giant orbiting mirrors!
Lots of fusion reactors running off the H2 from the gas giants!
Move the planet!

Better off terraforming Luna. Mars is still the easiest.

Erax · #5 July 16th, 2003, 11:55 PM

Nitrogen as it exists in our atmosphere - N2 - is too stable to be usable by most life forms, except a few bacteria. Other life forms require nitrogen in other forms - as ammonia, NH4+, nitrates or amines. The process by which N2 is converted to ammonia is called fixation.

Nitrogen is present in all amino acids, which are called that because they are both amines and organic acids. Life as we know it would be impossible without nitrogen, because there would be no amino acids and therefore no proteins.

Follow this link for an extensive treaty on the nitrogen cycle and how it is important to life on Earth.

Taera · #6 July 17th, 2003, 08:47 AM

how can you claim we know all particles in the universe? perharps somewhere there are atoms that have gravitons orbiting electrons and thats it for the atom. and dont start telling me there are no gravitons, its not proven. Or perharps atoms with quadraple cores? and how you know its impossible to have 1/2 of a particle? if we cant do it it doesnt mean its impossible. You cant go at the speed of light - who said its impossible?

dogscoff · #7 July 17th, 2003, 09:00 AM

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if we cant do it it doesnt mean its impossible.

Well, no. There probably are som wierd and wonderful particles out there to be discovered, but they would have to be damned rare and only exist under certain (life-unfriendly) conditions- otherwise we would have encountered them in our own solar system.

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You cant go at the speed of light - who said its impossible?

Einstein.