SE4 Stock Balance Mod

[Rollo]

[quote]Originally posted by geoschmo:

...I agree that Meson BLasters are very good early mid game weapon... Giving them a couple more levels is an elegantly simple solution that had not occured to me at all. I like it.

LOL, that has not occured to you?
remember we did this in DNM .

Rollo

[Rollo]

here is a suggestion: add bogus tech level requirements to Armor III. This way the AI will not use the unwanted scatter armor.

[geoschmo]

Sheesh, see how hard it is to make even simple changes? LOL

Anyone out there still want to complain about the lack of balance now?

[tesco samoa]

Question.

Do we really care about the ai ??? Most of us here are Online players.

I am just wondering if it is worth the time as we all have our own opinions on what a balance is.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Question.

Do we really care about the ai ??? Most of us here are Online players.

I am just wondering if it is worth the time as we all have our own opinions on what a balance is.

I don't personally. If all we are doing was talking about a mod you would be correct. But one of the stated objectives of this discussion was that once completed we were going to put the full court press on Malfador and try to get them to implement the changes into the stock game. The assumption is that they don't mind making balance changes, they just don't have the time or incentive to do it themselves. Making changes that will screw the ai will make the chance of the changes being added ot the stock game less nill.

Geoschmo

[PvK]

Originally posted by spoon:

quote:

---

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Giving them a couple more levels is an elegantly simple solution that had not occured to me at all. I like it.

Wouldn't that make them ai unfriendly, since all ai will stop researching at level 6? Getting them to range 8 with their existing six tech levels is very doable. If you're concerned about the research cheapness, maybe just up Level 1 research cost to 10k or 15k.

---

Well depending on how good you make the higher levels, even as a human I might still deploy MB range 6 rather than the range 8 Versions in late-game, because unless I have racial skill superiority, often it's much easier to hit at range 6 than at range 8. This will be particularly true for AI's which aren't maxed out on Aggressiveness, which describes pretty much all of the stock AI races. For them, range 8 weapons could be a disadvantage, at least if they use Max Weapons Range strategy.

Again though, you are suggesting taking a way a good existing weapon and making more like another existing weapon. If you want another range-8 weapon, I'd rather you add one than change/take away a good range 6 weapon.

Keeping them valid in the late-game seems important, but if the PPB isn't nerfed more than a little, they Meson BLasters remain not-so-good for the mid game, either.

MB are valid in late game. Making lower-research weapons competitive with higher-research weapons, though, would mainly make the tech tree shallower and more bland, it seems to me.

Range 8 Meson BLasters would be the alternative to the late game APB (for those using Max Range), which is also a good thing.

Well, I think range 6 MB are already the alternative to range 8 APB in late-game. Often range 6 weapons beat range 8 weapons in late game because the range 8 weapons (set to Max Range) miss much more often than the range 6 weapons do.

If you give MB range 8, they wouldn't be so much an alternative to APB as the nearly the same thing as APB. If you're interested in that slight variation, I suggest adding a weapon, but not taking away the existing MB.

MB are already interesting by being faster to research to a good level than APB, yet not having quite as good range or damage ratios at the high end. That's interesting.

Unmodded MB are also one of the best weapons in the game, even in late-game. It's the APB that stands out as being the most powerful at level XII. Tweaking the MB to be more powerful would still leave all the other weapons in the game far behind the APB. If you're focusing on APB vs. MB in late-game, it seems to me the thing to change would be to reduce the appeal of APB somehow.

PvK

[Captain Kwok]

Double Ugh! Why does everyone keep saying to make torpedoes better with a to-hit modifier! This makes no sense! A beam weapon like APB is almost instantaneous to strike it's target which can't really evade it, while a torpedo is moving fairly fast and won't be able to make quick sharp turns if the target makes a sudden move, so is more likely to miss than the beam.

It just needs to have more range and maybe a little more umph in the power department!

[geoschmo]

PvK, there is logic to your post, but adding a weapon would either require rewriting all the AI research and design files, or we'd end up with a weapon that the AI never uses. I am not sure I like either of those.

Kwok. We are simply trying to find a good way to give the torps more value since they are pretty consistantnly regarded as a poor weapon. Giving them a better chance to hit is a way to give them a little disticntivness as well and some "non-traditional value". More damage/more range being the only answers to the questions gets boring after a while. It doesn't have to make sense.

Geoschmo

[ July 23, 2003, 22:06: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[spoon]

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
Double Ugh! Why does everyone keep saying to make torpedoes better with a to-hit modifier! This makes no sense!

Everyone knows that a space torpedo exlodes when it gets near its target, and it's the bLast radius that translates into its bonus to hit

[ July 23, 2003, 22:10: Message edited by: spoon ]

[tesco samoa]

I think it is a question to be answered.

As my opinion of stock balance differes greatly from some of the stuff posted here.

Example

Weapons that have a reload of 1 should have the least amount of damage and range

and as the reload time increases so should the base range and / or damage

So max range for a 1 reload would be within the 1 to 3 range ( exception would be the tractor/ repulser )
2 reload would be the 2 to 5 range
3 reload would be the 3 to 8 range
Plus mounts

seekers stay at their current ranges and when you get to the Last level the reload time should decrease to 2

PD damage decreases on range and increase the size of the pd by 10kt and triple the cost of the pd reserach.

I think that missles should decrease in fire rate , and the size should get smaller on the high end ones.

Advanced military science at 50000 a level removes the cheap cloaking counter.

and finally advanced storage racial trait should be 1500

This to me adds balance. Some will agree some will disagree.

And what is the prereq for when an item is agreed upon.

100 % or 75% of the posters agree to the change.

Then would we weight our items and agree on the weight as well ??

These ideas need to be figured out as well.