SE4 Stock Balance Mod

[geoschmo]

PvK, there is logic to your post, but adding a weapon would either require rewriting all the AI research and design files, or we'd end up with a weapon that the AI never uses. I am not sure I like either of those.

Kwok. We are simply trying to find a good way to give the torps more value since they are pretty consistantnly regarded as a poor weapon. Giving them a better chance to hit is a way to give them a little disticntivness as well and some "non-traditional value". More damage/more range being the only answers to the questions gets boring after a while. It doesn't have to make sense.

Geoschmo

[ July 23, 2003, 22:06: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[spoon]

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
Double Ugh! Why does everyone keep saying to make torpedoes better with a to-hit modifier! This makes no sense!

Everyone knows that a space torpedo exlodes when it gets near its target, and it's the bLast radius that translates into its bonus to hit

[ July 23, 2003, 22:10: Message edited by: spoon ]

[tesco samoa]

I think it is a question to be answered.

As my opinion of stock balance differes greatly from some of the stuff posted here.

Example

Weapons that have a reload of 1 should have the least amount of damage and range

and as the reload time increases so should the base range and / or damage

So max range for a 1 reload would be within the 1 to 3 range ( exception would be the tractor/ repulser )
2 reload would be the 2 to 5 range
3 reload would be the 3 to 8 range
Plus mounts

seekers stay at their current ranges and when you get to the Last level the reload time should decrease to 2

PD damage decreases on range and increase the size of the pd by 10kt and triple the cost of the pd reserach.

I think that missles should decrease in fire rate , and the size should get smaller on the high end ones.

Advanced military science at 50000 a level removes the cheap cloaking counter.

and finally advanced storage racial trait should be 1500

This to me adds balance. Some will agree some will disagree.

And what is the prereq for when an item is agreed upon.

100 % or 75% of the posters agree to the change.

Then would we weight our items and agree on the weight as well ??

These ideas need to be figured out as well.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by spoon:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
[QB]Double Ugh! Why does everyone keep saying to make torpedoes better with a to-hit modifier! This makes no sense!
[QB]

Everyone knows that a space torpedo exlodes when it gets near its target, and it's the bLast radius that translates into its bonus to hit

---

Right. And since beam weapons don't really go the speed of light, at least they don't in every show I have ever seen, they aren't a sure thing to hit. A torpedo is too fast to be effectively evaded, but it can have some homing ability that a beam cannot so can make up for mistakes made in aiming, which a beam cannot.

We can make up anything we want to and make it sound plausible.

Geoschmo

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
And what is the prereq for when an item is agreed upon.

100 % or 75% of the posters agree to the change.

Then would we weight our items and agree on the weight as well ??

I think a good balance mod is going to be one which very few people like everything, but in which most people can still tolerate the changes they don't like. Balance will require compromise. So it would come down more to weight I think.

Geoschmo

[spoon]

Originally posted by PvK:
Well depending on how good you make the higher levels, even as a human I might still deploy MB range 6 rather than the range 8 Versions in late-game, because unless I have racial skill superiority, often it's much easier to hit at range 6 than at range 8. This will be particularly true for AI's which aren't maxed out on Aggressiveness, which describes pretty much all of the stock AI races. For them, range 8 weapons could be a disadvantage, at least if they use Max Weapons Range strategy.

You could always give them a small bonus to hit to compensate, like 10%.

Again though, you are suggesting taking a way a good existing weapon and making more like another existing weapon. If you want another range-8 weapon, I'd rather you add one than change/take away a good range 6 weapon.

It's an ok weapon, but I never use it because it is beat out easily by PPBs mid game and APBs late game. There is never a time I wish I had MBs. DUCs are fine until PPBs come Online.

Of course, if PPBs are nerfed more than a little, then MBs (as is) become more viable as a mid-game weapon.

quote:

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Keeping them valid in the late-game seems important, but if the PPB isn't nerfed more than a little, they Meson BLasters remain not-so-good for the mid game, either.

MB are valid in late game. Making lower-research weapons competitive with higher-research weapons, though, would mainly make the tech tree shallower and more bland, it seems to me.

---

It would still be less effective than the APB for Point Blank strategies, and would only be worthwhile for people pursuing a Max Range strategy. I don't think it diminishes the tech tree at all.

If you give MB range 8, they wouldn't be so much an alternative to APB as the nearly the same thing as APB. If you're interested in that slight variation, I suggest adding a weapon, but not taking away the existing MB.

I'd be fine with that too - which weapon do you suggest?

Unmodded MB are also one of the best weapons in the game, even in late-game. It's the APB that stands out as being the most powerful at level XII. Tweaking the MB to be more powerful would still leave all the other weapons in the game far behind the APB. If you're focusing on APB vs. MB in late-game, it seems to me the thing to change would be to reduce the appeal of APB somehow.

I was sort of using the APB as the "standard" to base balancing on. I like that it is the best general weapon, given how much research it takes to get to level 12. However, I still think other weapons should be viable in the late game, which means giving each of them a niche.

[Suicide Junkie]

and finally advanced storage racial trait should be 1500

Rather than increase the cost, why not decrease the effect? That way, no AI modifications are required.

Weapons that have a reload of 1 should have the least amount of damage and range

and as the reload time increases so should the base range and / or damage

So max range for a 1 reload would be within the 1 to 3 range ( exception would be the tractor/ repulser )
2 reload would be the 2 to 5 range
3 reload would be the 3 to 8 range
Plus mounts

While I would agree with that being a reasonable universe setup overall, there should definitely be exceptions to that system.

And it has very little resemblance to unmodded SE4, so it can't really be applied to this project.