SE4 Stock Balance Mod

geoschmo · #1 July 25th, 2003, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Armor is a cheap, early game option.

I agree that it should be, but I am not sure it really is. Since you have to research chemistry as a prerequisite. It's no easier to get early armor then it is to get early shields unfotunatly. If it weren't for getting to stealth armor I'd venture a lot of people wouldn't even research it. And very few use much of it on their frontline warships. Usually it'a a piece here or there to finish off a design when nothing else will fit.

Geoschmo

oleg · #2 July 25th, 2003, 04:32 PM

Another option to balance armor - increase EA effect. If we also reduce the benefit of mounts, it can make high-damage, low reload weapons like WMG and torpedos much more valuable than say APB or PPB !

Loser · #3 July 25th, 2003, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by geoschmo:

quote:
Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Armor is a cheap, early game option.

I agree that it should be, but I am not sure it really is. Since you have to research chemistry as a prerequisite. It's no easier to get early armor then it is to get early shields unfotunatly. If it weren't for getting to stealth armor I'd venture a lot of people wouldn't even research it. And very few use much of it on their frontline warships. Usually it'a a piece here or there to finish off a design when nothing else will fit.

Actually, Armor ought to be highly useful in PBW games and I know it is in tough TDM games, where you know the other guy is chasing PPB, so there's no reason to put Shields on your ships until you get to the sixth level. And even at the sixth level it's hardly worth it.

But Armor takes ten kilotonnes of space for forty kilotonnes of protection. Emissive Armor give you fifty kilotonnes of protection and thirty kilotonnes of a sort of recharging protection for twenty kilotonnes of space. That's pretty worth while. Unless you're facing a crystalline or NSP opponent Armor is a good thing. And it rocks on Weapon Platforms.

If Weapon Platforms are hit in order of placement, and I believe they are, then putting a few cheap 100% Armor WPs on a planet means the badum has to dish out serious damage before the shooting WPs or Relic/Sensor WPs are even touched. Shield WPs do the same, but are so much more expensive (take longer to build). I think it takes the third level of Phased Shielding to beat out Armor for protection/kilotonne.

And on Units, unless I am mistaken, Armor piercing is a moot point. The unit is not impaired until all its components are destroyed, so the Armor piercing still has to deliver the whole sum of the damage, while Shield piercing does not. Since the components do not need repair, the Armor could be said to recharge, just like Shields, and the only advantage to Shields over Armor in a Unit is the greater protection/kilotonne offered by higher level shielding, which is expensive and takes a long time to get.

I'm not sure on what the dividing lines are, but I'm thinking that it's Late Game before I'm putting Phased Shields on Weapon Platforms.

[ July 25, 2003, 15:44: Message edited by: Loser ]

Loser · #4 July 25th, 2003, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oleg:
Another option to balance armor - increase EA effect. If we also reduce the benefit of mounts, it can make high-damage, low reload weapons like WMG and torpedos much more valuable than say APB or PPB !

The amount of 'soak' on Emissive Armor III makes it exactly equivalent to Armor III: 40kt structure/10kt for Armor III and 50kt structure + 30kt 'soak'/20kt for Emissive Armor III. If you increase the amount of 'soak' on Emissive armor I think it would be proper to decrease the amount of structural kt, as this balance seems appropriate.

I really think Armor is fine as it is. It is useful in it's time. That people fail to take advantage of this feature does not mean that the feature is unbalanced or nerfed, simply that its merit is undiscovered.

Do experienced PBW players avoid the use of Armor and Emissive Armor?

Am I just naive for thinking that it is a great component? This is possible...

[ July 25, 2003, 15:46: Message edited by: Loser ]

oleg · #5 July 25th, 2003, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Loser:
...If Weapon Platforms are hit in order of placement, and I believe they are, then putting a few cheap 100% Armor WPs on a planet means the badum has to dish out serious damage before the shooting WPs or Relic/Sensor WPs are even touched. Shield WPs do the same, but are so much more expensive (take longer to build). I think it takes the third level of Phased Shielding to beat out Armor for protection/kilotonne.

And on Units, unless I am mistaken, Armor piercing is a moot point. The unit is not impaired until all its components are destroyed, so the Armor piercing still has to deliver the whole sum of the damage, while Shield piercing does not. Since the components do not need repair, the Armor could be said to recharge, just like Shields, and the only advantage to Shields over Armor in a Unit is the greater protection/kilotonne offered by higher level shielding, which is expensive and takes a long time to get.

I'm not sure on what the dividing lines are, but I'm thinking that it's Late Game before I'm putting Phased Shields on Weapon Platforms.

No, WP are destroyed more or less starting with weaker one, with some element of randomness. There were some Posts with detailed results as I remember. Shield point on WP and fighters are part of structure. PPB does NOT skip unit's nonphased shields. Neither does NSP. Planetary shield is more like "normal" shield and is skipped by PPB, IIRC.

geoschmo · #6 July 25th, 2003, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Loser:
I really think Armor is fine as it is. It is useful in it's time. That people fail to take advantage of this feature does not mean that the feature is unbalanced or nerfed, simply that its merit is undiscovered.

Do experienced PBW players avoid the use of Armor and Emissive Armor?

This is a good question. One worthy of it's own discussion. I will start a new thread...

Loser · #7 July 25th, 2003, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oleg:
Shield point on WP and fighters are part of structure. PPB does NOT skip unit's nonphased shields.

Is this so?

I thought the PPB skip didn't work only on Units for which Phased Shield are not provided in the game, Fighters and Troops, as opposed to Weapon Platforms, Satellites, and Drones, for which Phased Shields are provided.

[edit:

Quote:

Originally posted by geoschmo:
This is a good question. One worthy of it's own discussion. I will start a new thread...

Oh... right... cut-and-paste time.]

[ July 25, 2003, 16:17: Message edited by: Loser ]