SE4 Stock Balance Mod

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by PvK:
Remove PPB's phased concept, making them and Phased shields pointless (except for Phased Shield V)?

Like many of the ideas, it would be an interesting mod variant, but it's a design change rather than a balance adjustment.

Yes, I think you are right on that. But it was interesting discussion. Not a good idea for this though.

Originally posted by PvK:
* If you think MB needs to be improved, then I don't think you've run enough cost/effect analysis of other weapons which are harder to get, such as racial normal-damage ROF 1 weapons.

I am in pretty much agreement with this as well. A long time ago I did some detailed analysis using actual in game tests, not just math on paper, and compared ships using APB, MB and PPB. I didn't do a one for one test but factored in different sized fleets to account for the various cost of the weapons. Not suprisingly the PPB pretty much dominated the other two, but the APB and MB were suprisingly even. The APB did have somewhat of an advantage as it should from looking at the difference in damage. But the MB fleets did fairly well what with the greater number of ships in a fleet that could be built in the same amount of time. It was close enough that a MB player could win decisivly with an advantage in some other area such as training, tactics, or a stronger economy which would allow even mroe ships then would be accounted for by the difference in weapon cost.

I really think most of the MB's perceived problems are just from an unfair comparison to the PPB.

Geoschmo

P.S. Katchoo. Hommmmm, Hommmmmm.. I'm going to my happy place....

[ July 26, 2003, 04:29: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[tesco samoa]

Katchoo (edit read katchoo but wrote pvk) good idea.... perhaps we should just start with one item or family and work on it. Why not start with the Reactors ? Then cargo so we can get the system down pact with some trial runs on our weight system

[ July 26, 2003, 04:32: Message edited by: tesco samoa ]

[Katchoo]

Thanks Tesco

I took the liberty to put together information on each of the main weapons into some text files which you can all peek at, compare, and make recomendations.

Race specific weapons are not included, and neither are Missles or Bombs.

Depleted Uranium Cannons
Any changes to be made (Yes/No)

Anti - Proton Beams
Any changes to be made (Yes/No)

Meson BLaster
Any changes to be made (Yes/No)

Phased Polaron Beams
Any changes to be made (Yes/No)

Ripper & Incinerator Beams
Any changes to be made (Yes/No)

Graviton Hellbore
Any changes to be made (Yes/No)

Wave Motion Gun
Any changes to be made (Yes/No)

Null - Space Projector
Any changes to be made (Yes/No)

Anti Matter & Quantum Torpedoes
Any changes to be made (Yes/No)

Point Defense Cannons
Any changes to be made (Yes/No)

EDIT: Edited link to the Null - Space Projector.

[ July 26, 2003, 05:26: Message edited by: Katchoo ]

[Taera]

the only problems i can realy see the problem with are the PPB (too easy to get, thats the only problem of the weapon IMO. Otherwise, too good a damage for a special gun. Think Shard Cannon.), the AMT&QT (nothing to make them useful -- reccomended to-hit bonus) and PDC (no real solution found). Also Talisman is very unbalancing and Quantum Reactor is a bit too powerful.

For racials, crystals need a little of boost, otherwise they're all pretty well done.

[Pax]

Originally posted by Taera:
for more basic changes, we just need to fix the wrong things - thats the talisman, the torpedo, the ppb and the pdc. thats about it? others are changes for mods, i'd say.

Armor should, really, be more useful than it currently is. For the same research input, armor should give more hp/kT than shields (you don't have to repair shield hp, but you do have to repair armor components). IMO anyway.

The best way to do that is probably to extend the Armor tech field out, and put in more components -- like, say, Armor IV through Armor XII, or whatever.

At any given point, presuming equal investment, armor should give youmore hp/kt, but, shields should give you repair-free hp/kt. That would make deciding between them an actual choice instead of a no-brainer.

[Taera]

umm, no. armor doesnt have a counter such as shields do - the shield depleter (150 damage for 20kT ROF1 is not a joke) and shield distruptor.

doing what your saying would break the slight balance of shields vs armor - shields good protection, fails against pbb, phased shields are expensive to research, armor acts as backup.

[Captain Kwok]

204 Posts and 3 days, and not a single decision on anything has been made. Ah, democracy at work!

[ July 26, 2003, 07:31: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]