Is this gamey?

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by DavidG:
Assuming the player is keeping all those resources for himself then you are quite correct. What if, however, he is gifting resources back to the player who gifted the planet?

Well that's kind of a convoluted method of resource procurement. If I found someone going through all that trouble in a game to get a measely 50K minerals every turn I would be more concerned about what other shenanigans they were up to. In that case the minerals themselves would be less of a problem themselves and more of a symptom of a general lack of sportsmanship. I would not like to play with them again, or their co-conspirator.

I have no trouble whatsoever with players helping each other out in games. But when one is doing so to the absolute exclusion of his own empire and getting nothing in return, as in this case of gifting away all his trade income instead of using it to rebuild his empire, then that isn't gamey. It's cheating.

Geoschmo

[ July 25, 2003, 13:51: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[Slynky]

Well, actually, assuming research has been passed, it doesn't even have to stop at gifting back the resources...the person could build a ship at his shipyard and gift a built ship. Even better.

[geoschmo]

Well, I still don't think the gifting of the planet itself is a problem. I think it all comes down to what the intent behind the gifting of the planet is. If it is to get around some victory condition that depends on a players elimination then obviously it is wrong. If it is to make possible some convoluted scheme to gain for the gifting player additional resources, research, ships, etc. out of ether then I think it is also clearly wrong.

If on the other hand it's merely a way to keep a friend in the game and he intends to try and legitmatly rebuild his empire, or if it's a matter of saving a weaker empire and maybe having them become a useful ally later in the game (The fable of the mouse and the lion anyone? ) AND it is not expresslly forbidden in the pre-game conditions I would not have a problem with it.

Geoschmo

[ July 25, 2003, 14:29: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[Gryphin]

Geo said it first, (and better) but since I prepared it:

Seems like it comes down to
Intent
Execution
If the recieving player keeps and uses the resources then it seems fair. Yes they can using the Trade Resources create a ship every two to four turns. If this were a specialty ship such as a warp opener / star buster / mine sweeper / cloked spy ship etc… it could have a impact on the game.
Perhaps the two sides need to reach an agreement on what the recieving player can and cannot do.
Some items for consideration are:
Intel
Research
Specialty Ships

[Stone Mill]

As pointed out earlier, the benefits of this move may be overestimated. The bonus produced by the arrangement is a drop in the ocean, and the empire giving the planet has foregone a chunk of resources.

It may be frustrating for you, but it is not gamey. I have seen this move many times, and mostly, I think that it is to keep a player in the game so they can continue to have some kind of impact for a bit.

For all intent and puropse, they aren't able to really do much with one planet, so it does not bother me at all. Their expansion will be at the cost of their allies. There is only so much space in the quadrant, and you have made progress in a forward direction.

[DavidG]

Originally posted by Stone Mill:
As pointed out earlier, the benefits of this move may be overestimated. The bonus produced by the arrangement is a drop in the ocean, and the empire giving the planet has foregone a chunk of resources.

Actually I think it is likely the player with one planet is generating as much as 50% of the resources of my 3rd place empire due to treaties.

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Stone Mill:
As pointed out earlier, the benefits of this move may be overestimated. The bonus produced by the arrangement is a drop in the ocean, and the empire giving the planet has foregone a chunk of resources.

It may be frustrating for you, but it is not gamey. I have seen this move many times, and mostly, I think that it is to keep a player in the game so they can continue to have some kind of impact for a bit.

For all intent and puropse, they aren't able to really do much with one planet, so it does not bother me at all. Their expansion will be at the cost of their allies. There is only so much space in the quadrant, and you have made progress in a forward direction.

Without knowing all the details, it's not necessarily a drop in the bucket. IF the "little player" is allied to 2 other empires who each have 200,000 in research and 400,000 in resource generation, the treaty will generate (varies according to empire settings) a chunk of research (to be put to use on SOMETHING) and a LOT more resources that could be gifted back to each empire than the gifted planet could EVER pruduce (assuming it was just a 1, 2, or 3-fac planet and not some huge breathable).