OT:US don't qualify for EU membership, don't spank children, WW2 history.

oleg · #1 July 26th, 2003, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thermodyne:
Note:

France has begun to very quietly modernize its nuclear forces. If I were a German that remembers that Last war, I would be calling for a deterrent force for Germany. Remember that it was France that declared war on the Germans. And many Germans still believe that their government was only interested in righting the wrongs of Versailles [sp] and barring the gates to communism.

The reason may be more subtle. Once US install SDI, France nuclear deterrent will almost disappear. It is China and France who would be most affected by SDI. Russia has too much arsenal and UK, well, we all know

I don't know how many missiles France has but I doubt it will be enough if US is serious about SDI.

geoschmo · #2 July 26th, 2003, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oleg:
If Germany postpone the attack till summer of 42, there will be 1500 or even more.

Maybe, or maybe there would have been another purge, or maybe Stalin would have been fitted for a hemp necktie.

Russia wasn't exactly a smooth running machine prior to the German invasion united the people and government together in a great patroiotic cause.

Geoschmo

Thermodyne · #3 July 26th, 2003, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oleg:

quote:
Originally posted by Thermodyne:
Note:

France has begun to very quietly modernize its nuclear forces. If I were a German that remembers that Last war, I would be calling for a deterrent force for Germany. Remember that it was France that declared war on the Germans. And many Germans still believe that their government was only interested in righting the wrongs of Versailles [sp] and barring the gates to communism.

The reason may be more subtle. Once US install SDI, France nuclear deterrent will almost disappear. It is China and France who would be most affected by SDI. Russia has too much arsenal and UK, well, we all know I don't know how many missiles France has but I doubt it will be enough if US is serious about SDI.

France does not need these weapons for protection from the US. And they have to few to be called a superpower these days. The systems they are working on are tactical. These will only have deterrence against people who are somewhat closer to them. They are working on the same types of systems that the US removed some years back. Prior to the removal, they objected to the positioning of the weapons. Now they are deploying their own.

DeadZone · #4 July 26th, 2003, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruatha:

quote:
Originally posted by DeadZone:
Well, I can say this, most Brits hate the fact that we are apart of the EU because of how they have decided to screw up our justice system, need I say more?

What do you mean ? (Will read the answer tomorrow)
Our justice system hasn't changed very much since joining EU (I voted against joining though)

Cmon look at how weak our justice system has become, its laughable, the police are scared of criminals nowadays cos of how light sentencing is and the fact that police cant do anything to criminals incase it 'breaks' their human rights, and EU's human rights is stupid as it tends to protect the criminal instead of the victim.

tesco samoa · #5 July 26th, 2003, 06:27 AM

the plan failed in 41.... Germany never did secure their left flank.... But Novemember of 41 they had suffered 750000 casualties out of 3.4 million. Their panzer forces were spent.

Russia had 20000 tanks at the start of that war. The Keiv disaster was never repeated. And the 'lightening war' was never effective in the east due to the vast size and horrible roads and weather.

In late 41 the soviet airforce held its own. And Stalin learnt via Kiev that withdrawl was needed to save army Groups and that at Kiev the Field commander was correct and should be allowed to make the judgement call.

Nov 41 the germans also faced the reality that their tanks were outclassed and that they had to attack the 34 from behind. The soviets figured this out very quickly. Hence the long withdrawl battles of 42...

And at the end of 41 the okl and okh were controlled by hitler completely.

But then again this is all what if ? ( which are great books )

P.S. you do not win a war when you have 15 different rifles

geoschmo · #6 July 26th, 2003, 06:38 AM

Yes, but the issue was very much in doubt for a while. The Germans could have beaten the Russians with a few breaks and some better decision making. It makes you wonder if the Germans had their full force attacking the Russians, instead of holding much in reserve to defend the Atlantic Wall, and the Russians had not had the support of the lend lease program if they would have been able to hold out.

Geoschmo

tesco samoa · #7 July 26th, 2003, 06:57 AM

the baltics was a mistake as well.

This was one area that helped start the nails in the coffin as 15 divisions were tied up there.

And 2 panzer Groups were used there. This had grave effects on the equipment in August during the dust storms. Not to mention the troops themselves.

I also believe that the Africa campaign was a mistake as well.

The divisions should have been sent there to finish that theater off as it was very important to capture suez and the middle east.

The war on two fronts could not be avoided as the german navy could not support a landing on english soil. The losses from norway were felt during the build up of Sealion. Germany could only hope for a truce with England.

Also the their was the famous undersizing of the main gun for the iv's which proved to be very costly in experienced panzer tanks during the cruel winter of 41 and the spring of 42.

And also remember that Japan did not declare war on Russia. THis freed up many units from the far east. WHich showed their weight during the December and January battles

A very intersting topic. Indeed. Better with pints.