OT:US don't qualify for EU membership, don't spank children, WW2 history.

[tesco samoa]

Unknown_Enemy I believe Oleg was talking about the number of missles vs SDI. Well that is what I read from it. So with not enough missles their program becomes obsolete vs SDI.

[Thermodyne]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Unknown_Enemy I believe Oleg was talking about the number of missles vs SDI. Well that is what I read from it. So with not enough missles their program becomes obsolete vs SDI.

600km's is the range being talked about. With HAVLY warheads that are all the rage these days.

Is it just me, or do some of you worry that very low yield devices will make it more likly that someone will use one?

[General Woundwort]

Amazing how far a thread can go in 24 hours...

Tell me, Ruatha, have you ever read Heinlein's Starship Troopers? What do you think of the way he portrays the use of pain as a moral deterent (in both children and adults) in that novel? I will qualify my statement by saying that I don't agree with the evolutionary basis he uses for that theory, but there seems to be a recognition of the non-rationality in people that sometimes can only be restrained by non-rational means.

[tesco samoa]

an interesting book starship troopers.

that government was scary. A combination of Hitlerism and Stalinism with a little bit of Sparta.

[Ruatha]

Originally posted by General Woundwort:
Amazing how far a thread can go in 24 hours...

Tell me, Ruatha, have you ever read Heinlein's Starship Troopers? What do you think of the way he portrays the use of pain as a moral deterent (in both children and adults) in that novel? I will qualify my statement by saying that I don't agree with the evolutionary basis he uses for that theory, but there seems to be a recognition of the non-rationality in people that sometimes can only be restrained by non-rational means.

Yep. I've read it but it was so many years ago that I don't recall all the details, sorry.

When I was younger I liked Heinlein but now I don't find them entertaining, "Friday", "The cat who", "Lazarus long", "have spacesuit" etc etc, many of them where quite pubertal, (So I can see why I liked them )
"Starship troopers" was a bit different I think but still, didn't it have that boy gets attractive girl story that most Heinlein books centers around?
When I read it that was propably what interested me most I guess, will have to reread it someday. I saw the movie but it didn't remind me all that much of the book, only superficial, but then i don't recall the book all that much do I

[ July 26, 2003, 19:18: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[Unknown_Enemy]

Unknown_Enemy I believe Oleg was talking about the number of missles vs SDI. Well that is what I read from it. So with not enough missles their program becomes obsolete vs SDI.

I read again Oleg's post and I am not sure.
But in doubt, I edited/deleted my previous post.

[General Woundwort]

Tesco - Are you refering to the government as portrayed in the "movie" (note scare quotes indicating my abject refusal to grant that piece of bantha fodder any positive relation to the book), or the one in the book? The government in the book was specifically stated by one of the characters to be almost identical to America's present system, except you had to be a discharged veteran to vote. What's so "totalitarian" about that?

Ruatha - First, there was no "boy gets girl" theme in Troopers. Yes, Juan was attracted to Carmen, but nothing came of it in the book and it leaves their relationship totally unresolved.

Second, to jar your memory, in Troopers corporal punishment was not only accepted and practiced in childraising, but also in the criminal justice system. Jail time for non-capital crimes was replaced with public floggings (alluded to numerous times in the book, and even endured by the main character on one occasion). The idea was that pain and humiliation were the best ways to inculcate social behavior when appeals to reason were exhausted (which Heinlein would set at a far lower bar than most today IMHO).