OT: Brazilian Launch Facility

[Loser]

Condolences. Flying machines of all sorts are dangerous to use and sometimes just to be around, rockets even more so. Passenger or technician, those who deal with rocketry up close and personal are brave people, putting their lives on the line for noble purposes of their own choosing.

I was going to look up some data on Brazil (government, GNP, etc.) in the CIA world factbook, but I can't seem to get to cia.gov.... That's bad.

I'm sure it's up, perhaps score of gateways between us are down, or its IP is not what my DNS is telling me it is.... weird.

[Makinus]

Loser, i hope this helps:

Brazil

Government: Democratic Republic (Very similar with the US, with only minor differences).

Population: According to Last census 170 millions, but it was in 1991, today it is probably above 200 million.

Language: Portuguese (While we can understand perfectly the language spoken in Portugal and vice-versa, we have a lot of pronunciation and grammatical diferences)

Economy: Very high internal and external debt, that causes an stagnation in the economy, we desperatly need several reforms, mainly in the government spending (our government spends much more than it gains).

Advantages: Very rich in natural resources, south and southeast regions higly industrialized, very good climate.

Disvantages: Stagnant economy (see above), riches very poorly ditributed (a lot have nothing and a few have a lot), government corruption (being reduced, thanks to the press).

Any doubt, just ask me......

[Loser]

Thanks, Makinus. I finally managed to get to the Factbook and read up on Brazil a bit. It is very good to see the structure of your government and especially the divided legislature, absent from so many developed countries and world powers. I hope your people are able to deal with the corruption in government without abandoning your 1988 constitution.

I also admire the popular election of your president. I never much cared for the Electoral College in the U.S, since we assume the popular choice will be elected, indeed many states specify how their College member vote based on the popular vote and the number of such members is determined by population... so why is it not a popular vote? Not a big deal, but really...

[Chronon]

Originally posted by Loser:
I also admire the popular election of your president. I never much cared for the Electoral College in the U.S, since we assume the popular choice will be elected, indeed many states specify how their College member vote based on the popular vote and the number of such members is determined by population... so why is it not a popular vote? Not a big deal, but really...

I agree. And I think it is a big deal, because our Last presidential election would have turned out differently (and probably the Last three years of world politics, too) if our electoral system were like Brazil's.

[Makinus]

One thing i find strange in your (US) elections: if in Brazil we have an entirely eletronic voting system (where the citizen just punches in a special computer the number of his candidate), why the US, in several states, the vote is still in the old paper system?

We have almost imediate results in elections, with accuracy assured by computers, while using paper votes you have a long process to "count" all votes, normally done by humans, that, intentionally or no, can give inacurate results.

[Geckomlis]

Originally posted by Makinus:
One thing i find strange in your (US) elections: if in Brazil we have an entirely eletronic voting system (where the citizen just punches in a special computer the number of his candidate), why the US, in several states, the vote is still in the old paper system?

We have almost imediate results in elections, with accuracy assured by computers, while using paper votes you have a long process to "count" all votes, normally done by humans, that, intentionally or no, can give inacurate results.

Technological Determinism Answer:
It is called technology “lock-in”. Why do some developing nations have newer, faster, more cost-efficient telecommunications systems than the USA? Because the USA has the most extensive and developed telecommunications system in the world and a correspondingly huge legacy infrastructure. The USA has the same problem with voting technology.

Socio-Political Answer:
Each administrative unit in the USA has local authority over voting. For example, I live in the state of Pennsylvania. I live in a small, incorporated borough (village, town) inside a township (traditionally 16 square miles) inside a county. 30+ townships in my county, 67 counties in Pennsylvania. We generally elect school district Boards here, but school district domains do not follow municipal boundaries, i.e. they can cross multiple counties or any number of smaller administrative units’ boundaries. Each of those voting units has some local degree of authority over voting.

When I lived in the state of Maryland, there were no townships and very few incorporated boroughs. Generally, the smallest administrative unit was the county and the counties ran the schools. Much more efficient, but very different than Pennsylvania. So all of the states in the USA vary in their voting practices as well.

Do not ask me about taxes…!

Getting everyone to agree to replace the voting technology they have already purchased previously and to coordinate that effort above the local level is politically impossible most of the time.

[geoschmo]

We could have a whole thread discussing the pros and cons of the electoral college system.

Here's an interesting article about it for anyone wanting something deeper then the typical arguments that come up on the subject. It was written before the 2000 election mess.

http://www.avagara.com/e_c/reference/00012001.htm