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October 28th, 2003, 03:42 AM
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National Security Advisor
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Re: OT: Public referrendums on destroying evil companies
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Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
quote: Originally posted by PvK:
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Saying that the people who are sufficiently informed can avoid buying certain products is a ridiculous non-solution.
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Really, PvK? Because if non one buys a corps products..the corperation GOES BACKRUPT. This is gennerally considered a bad thing for them.
Yes, really! Because the percentage of people "who are sufficiently informed" is small enough that megacorps don't care, particularly once they've dominated a market. Some corporations don't deal much or at all in public sales anyway (e.g. Gator, chemical manufacturers, research companies).
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And please define what you mean by benifical, because using just that I know of more than a few people who would leave McDonalds and the other corps you listed alone, but close down MM, Shrapnel and quite a few others you would like to see stay in one piece.
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When I wrote "corporations should only exist to do beneficial things", I didn't mean to say that they should be destroyed if some people don't appreciate what they do. I was reacting to people seeming to say that corporations just abstractly needed to exist. However, I didn't mean to say that a corporation should need to justify its existance.
However I do think that when their behavior causes problems, someone ought to consider controlling that behavior. Corporations certainly can't be counted on to do it themselves, because they their whole purpose is generally to maximize their own profits, by doing whatever they can get away with. This can and does frequently get way out of control, and in the case of megacorps, on a vast scale compared to what mischief individual humans can do.
PvK
[ October 28, 2003, 01:44: Message edited by: PvK ]
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October 28th, 2003, 04:34 AM
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Lieutenant Colonel
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Location: Dundas, Ontario, Canada
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Re: OT: Public referrendums on destroying evil companies
Quote:
Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
quote: Originally posted by DavidG:
Hmmm some intersting stuff there... and also a lot of funny crap. One one of the pages it suggest McD is causing world hunger by promoting the meat culture. Like if it wasn't for McD we'd all be vegitarians and there'd be enough food for the whole world. And McD is responsible for global warming cause of all that methane cows produce. Like if McD's dissapeared tomorrow we all start eating salads.
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Does it really say McDonalds is responsible for these problems? Or are you reading it in Rush Limbaugh style, pushing the claims to their most absurb extreme in order to avoid having to consider them? I think it says McDonalds contributes to these problems, actually. And they certainly do as one of the largest food companies on the planet. It's not so simple as saying that the 'free market' determines this, either. If not for McDonalds advertising vast numbers of people would eat differently. Corporations are not just passive receivers of market forces. They also create them. Just like Walmart has a measurable effect on inflation nation-wide by its push to reduce prices, McDonalds has a real effect on peoples' diets world-wide through its huge advertising campaigns. No it said McD contributes to the problem. But even that is ridiculous. The one I read was just a rant by a hardcore vegitarian. I dislike McDonalds but one can hardly blame them for the fact that we eat meat. Do you really think we eat more beef becuase of McD's?
Now if you want to critisize McD's for pushing unhealthy junk food on us and being a major contirbutor to the rise in obesity (and god knwos what other health problems) well I couldn't argue with that.
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October 28th, 2003, 04:36 AM
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Major
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Re: OT: Public referrendums on destroying evil companies
Quote:
Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
How could it possibly be 'incendiary' to say that sleazy corporations are sleazy? Yes, since corporations have more influence on the writing of laws that govern corporations than the 'general public' (non-wealthy ordinary people) they are pretty much sleazy by default.
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It's incendiary because you are saying, "You're rich therefore you must have done something bad in order to get so rich, therefore you are evil." Whatever happened to presumption of innocence?
If the authorities have suspicions, then it is okay for them to investigate. If investigations turn up evidence of wrongdoing, then I'd be happy to say that that corporation is sleazy. Otherwise, I do not believe that it would be fair to call corporations and even as you seem to imply, rich individuals, sleazy by default.
In McDonald's case, what is it precisely that you think they have done wrong?
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October 28th, 2003, 04:42 AM
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Major
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Re: OT: Public referrendums on destroying evil companies
Quote:
Originally posted by PvK:
I didn't mean to say that they should be destroyed if some people don't appreciate what they do.
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Hey, PvK, you named the thread "Public referendums on destroying evil companies". 
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October 28th, 2003, 09:48 AM
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Shrapnel Fanatic
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Re: OT: Public referrendums on destroying evil companies
Deccan, didn't you know that if you are not a poor Joe-schmo, you are by default a sleazy scum-bag?  Even though the majority of wealthy people are honest, hard-working people that got their money by working long hours, taking great personal (financial) risks, etc., they are still sleazy.  Sounds like a lot of stereotyping is going on here to me...
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October 28th, 2003, 09:58 AM
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Shrapnel Fanatic
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Re: OT: Public referrendums on destroying evil companies
Keep in mind that were it not for corporations and other large businesses, you would most likely not be able to own a car, the computer you are using right now, or have canned foods, packaged foods, processed foods, or even much food that you did not grow yourself or was not grown within a couple of miles of you (very problematic for large cities  ), nor be able to buy much in the way of cheap (comparatively based on quality versus cost) clothing, shoes, furniture, etc. that you did not make yourself, have a house that you did not build yourself, and so on. All of these things would be way to expensive if they were made by small companies that were not able to produce on such a large scale as to be able to lower costs to more affordable levels. It takes a lot of capital to get production costs down so that prices can be relatively low (as well as to develop methods to reduce such costs, allowing other companies to copy them). Small businesses and cottage industries rarely have that capital.
[ October 28, 2003, 08:00: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]
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October 28th, 2003, 10:49 AM
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Major
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Re: OT: Public referrendums on destroying evil companies
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