Intelligence ops

[Cyrien]

Of course you could just crush them... but it is so much more fun to sit safe in your systems crushing anything they throw at you while slowly shredding their empire from within.

Note: I have found that most people stop developing intel after 100k to 200k intel points per turn. So with a simple 400k to 600k(this with -50% to intel points in race bonuses) I can regularly break down their defenses. With four fully developed level 3 counter programs stored up in the back I can focus on attacking and breaking down the enemy while they will be forced to do nothing but defend. Even the few attacks they might try to get through are easily blocked.

Intel is far too often undervalued. Never underestimate the ability to grab and analyze enemy ships pretty early in the game with a strong intel system. With such a system research doesn't have to be upto par with everyone else. You research what you need and take the common areas from others. And self destruct devices can't stop intel ship takeover.

Also while breaking through built up intel defense can take awhile, once it is broken down it is easy to keep it down.

[Loser]

One more thing Intel is very good for. Stealing Mine Sweepers, without which your opponent is going to be very careful with his large fleets. I used this while holding-back Gravey in Adamant009. Of course, I was just delaying the inevitable, but it gave me time to amass a huge fleet with which I faced him down... and lost.

[edit: will != while]

[ December 10, 2003, 17:43: Message edited by: Loser ]

[Slick]

Originally posted by Cyrien:
That isn't always true. The "any" technology will quite often fail as it tries to steal a technology you already have. While a specific tech theft will generally work out better since you probably chose a tech they have that you don't. But if you don't then it still fails because you have the tech...

The "any" or specific does not affect the chances of the success or failure of the intelligence op. This is in response to the question about chances of success. Chances of success are only dependent on the defender having enough CI. If he has enough CI to stop the attack, the chance of success is 0%. If he doesn't the chance of success is 100% for all except PPP which *I think* is 50%.

As you state, for the Crew Insurrection project, this decision can affect your actually getting something useful or not, but this was not the question. And you are right that it is often better to target newer models.

Slick.

[Parasite]

I am currently in an Intel battle (with an AI) I capture 5-6 ships a turn, but one project always fails from counter intel. I don't know if you need 100% of the CI, I think you just need some points, but any attacks after the CI is gone are not stopped. He only has one system, so I suspect his CI is lower than the 50K of ship capture. Yet he still stops one attack a turn.

[Cyrien]

There are few thing as satisfying as getting a failed ship takeover intel project because they have no more ships to takeover. Destroying or taking over all of an AIs ships without having ever sent one of your ships into their space, ahhh how sweet is that.

[Slick]

Originally posted by Parasite:
I am currently in an Intel battle (with an AI) I capture 5-6 ships a turn, but one project always fails from counter intel. I don't know if you need 100% of the CI, I think you just need some points, but any attacks after the CI is gone are not stopped. He only has one system, so I suspect his CI is lower than the 50K of ship capture. Yet he still stops one attack a turn.

He does need to block 50K, but he doesn't actually need to be generating 50K from his facilities. From the FAQ:

10.1.7 CI projects get a 20% bonus and higher levels of CI projects get a multiplier as follows. 1000 points put into CI projects yield: 1000 x 120% (defense bonus) = 1200 defensive points.
CI1: 1200 x 1 = 1200
CI2: 1200 x 2 = 2400
CI3: 1200 x 3 = 3600 (Suicide Junkie)

Therefore, if he had CI3, he would only need to have 13889 points per turn to block 50000. [50000 * (1000/3600) = 13889]

Also, he could be getting some more intel points from a partnership treaty with another empire.

[edit: typpo]

Slick.

[ December 10, 2003, 19:07: Message edited by: Slick ]

[Roanon]

CouterIntel is just too powerful - as is Intel, if it succeeds. The whole system is just not good .
This formula is the reason why you cannot succeed with intel "with a simple 400k to 600k points against 100k to 200k where most people stop".
You need about double or triple that amount, unless your enemies are AI or very dumb. 200k are more than enough to completely stop 600k, not to mention the stored points in ongoing CI projects that have to be worn down first. And there should be plenty stored CI points because what else can you do with intel points other than storing lots of them during peacetime.