Battlestar Galactica **Spoilers** discussion

[Cheeze]

Geo, you're right, but that's not the episode I was referencing.

Repeating the same scenes over and over again..and we still loved that show. You always knew the viper would hit that middle cylon raider and the other two would break right and left. And the cylons would always fall for the "hit the brakes and watch them fly right by us" manuever, even looking over their shoulders when they should have been trying to turn their ship.

Ah, the memories....

EDIT POST: I like how some of the other ships made it to this new movie. I expected that one ship to say "Colonial Movers: We Move Anywhere". I was surprised the botannical ship was destroyed. I expected it to escape, as there was one in the series fleet. That was probably deliberate.

[ December 11, 2003, 23:17: Message edited by: Cheeze ]

[Patroklos]

Hey,

I was also hoping to see a few more military ships escape. At the end of Part one Adama sends a message to the fleet he tells them to regroup at the anchorage for a counterattack. Now I wasn't expecting a counterattack to actually happen, nor was I was expecting to see any more battlestars (they said 30 were destroyed off the bat and that was only 1/3 of the fleet. 90 BATTLESTARS!!!) but what about the rest. Not a single Cruiser, Destoyer, or Frigate escaped? If I remember correctly in the original series there were some smaller warships present, many of them participated in the figher defence. How about some left over fighters? As it is I don't thing the Galactica could have escaped with any more than a wing of 30 odd fighters, and at least 10 were already destroyed. They are going to run out.

And why does Adama care what the "President" says. For one, she is 34th in line, which is like Monica Lewinski taking power. And she talks alot about democracy, but I am pretty sure an education minister is an appointed position.

-Pat

[Starhawk]

Originally posted by Patroklos:
Hey,

I was also hoping to see a few more military ships escape. At the end of Part one Adama sends a message to the fleet he tells them to regroup at the anchorage for a counterattack. Now I wasn't expecting a counterattack to actually happen, nor was I was expecting to see any more battlestars (they said 30 were destroyed off the bat and that was only 1/3 of the fleet. 90 BATTLESTARS!!!) but what about the rest. Not a single Cruiser, Destoyer, or Frigate escaped? If I remember correctly in the original series there were some smaller warships present, many of them participated in the figher defence. How about some left over fighters? As it is I don't thing the Galactica could have escaped with any more than a wing of 30 odd fighters, and at least 10 were already destroyed. They are going to run out.

And why does Adama care what the "President" says. For one, she is 34th in line, which is like Monica Lewinski taking power. And she talks alot about democracy, but I am pretty sure an education minister is an appointed position.

-Pat

Actually the entire colonial fleet consisted of 120 battlestars with 240 fighter squadrons (2 per ship unless the third gen battlestars could hold more) the approximate manpower was 245,000 men and women in the fleet. Frigates, destroyers, and cruisers were probobly considered absolete being that a battlestar (especially the third gen battlestars which we sadly didn't see any of) would be a turbo charged battleship with the ability to launch the advanced viper mark 7s and besides that in space a battleship with intercept fighters would probobly be better then a small ship.

As for additional warships and surviving fighters if you look very closely at the fleet of survivor ships when boomer makes her jump into the sector you see what looks to be at least three seperate fighter Groups flying CAP around the area of the fleet, some of them look like the mark 7s while others look kind of like 2s. So I think these fighters probobly just came aboard Galactica when the refugee fleet arrived because if you remember all of Galactica's mark 7s were destroyed yet in the final battle scene we see a conisderable number of 2s and 7s launching to engage the Cylon raiders at the Galactia perimiter. So perhaps they made reference to it when that guy was talking to Baltar and mentioned having to refitt the new vipers.
If Galactica was fully loaded it could hold an approximate 40 to 60 vipers depending on how cramped they packed her.
And is it just me or did some of those Viper's look different from both the Mark 7s and 2s? Maybe some older fighters managed to link up with the Civilian fleet??
Oh and those aren't lasers the fighter use they are railguns most likely, as reffered to when CPO Tyrol said "She's fully loaded and fueled sir" or something like that when telling Adama about his old Viper. Lasers don't count as munitions.

Now on to the Galactica and those who were disapointed by her firepower, I don't think she was actually comitting herself to the fight, as her "main guns" the big ones that fired slower then those rapid deck guns seemed to fire HE shells which would be more then enough to blow a hole in a base star's armor if she was trying to kill one.

And BTW NO the Galactica DOES NOT have shields, that was the effect of the Nuke going off, as even Adama said "The hull plating caught most of the hard stuff". So it is most likely that the Galactica has ablative armor or at least some type of reactive armor.

Oh and as to why Adama respects the president, easy she is now rightfully the president and is a very in charge person so unless he had her shot he wouldn't be able to come up with a good reason to take over.

Remeber this Adama is not the "wiseman/godlike know it all/ spiritual guide/ moses/ noah" that the original was he is a much more realistic MILITARY commander who thinks in military terms and the President is the best choice for controling the civvie population.


P.S. I do hope if they get a full series out we get to see the Battlestar Pegusus and hopefully she'll be one of the New Battlestars that was replacing the second gen Galactica type because I'd love to see one of them. And it would also be cool if they actually had her SURVIVE in the series so that we get to see some more kickass space battles between Battlestars and Basestars.


P.P.S. Nope no hostility at all Atrocities I just really didn't like the New Outer Limits and even thinking about it sometimes ticks me off .

Now as to the Cylons, they did explain it but it was more in the way the Cylons acted then in the "spoken" script so since I often read into things a great deal it seemed obvious to me I meant no offense to those of you who didn't quite get it.

[ December 12, 2003, 09:45: Message edited by: Starhawk ]

[Patroklos]

Assuming smaller ship classes are obsolete is just something the AI thinks . The fact is smaller ships are normally cheaper and have very different roles than something the size of the Galactica. Obviously, if I fitted a battlecruiser with the weapons of the more advanced battlestars you talk about then it would probobly make mincemeat of the Galactica. How about an Unrep or support ship? Unsupported battleships are useless.

And I think most military leaders disregard the civilian chain of command sucession after 20 heartbeats, and rightfully so. Hell, I bet Adamas G-Rate is even higher than the "Prez." In all seriousness if they reallyn want to be democratic they need to hold an election. Civilians have nothing better to do, except die of course.

-Pat

[ December 12, 2003, 11:55: Message edited by: Patroklos ]

[Starhawk]

If you fit a battlecruiser style ship with the Galactica weapons it would lose because the galactica has more of them AND a fighter wing to support it. Why build 300 cheap warships when you can build 120 that can devestate those 300?

Basically this is not Star Trek where the ships zoom about like mad if you look at the New Galactica Universe ships seem to fight like ships of old where they stand and deliver their firepower in volley after volley. A BC wouldn't stand up to the Galactica or any other Battlestar for that matter. When you are facing a ship bristling with flak guns, missile tubes, and heavy rail cannons that fire HE rounds and that ALSO carries a fighter wing then your pretty well boned unless you outnumber it by a good ammount.

Now Unrep and Support vessels are NOT warships they are support vessels and I'm sure the Colonial fleet had a few of those.

As for size vs firepower let's use SEIV as an Example usually my cruisers have few guns then the enemy ships but I usually end up winning because my cruisers have more Shield and armor systems. So why would I build a dozen escorts for the same price when my cruiser could blow through them like snot through a tissue?
Now I have also completely destroyed a light cruiser with a simple destroyer, not because I stood and fought but BECAUSE I outfit all destroyer and smaller ships with missile tubes only so the enemy can't get my range and destroy them, only when I get up to Light Cruiser do I make gunships with shields and armor. But the second I get a full gunship Light Cruiser against a Full Gun cruiser the LC dies hard but still dies, if it gets lucky it cripples the enemy enough for the next poor SOB to win. Now these cruisers or even light Cruisers with shields and armor combo's just shrug off missile attacks and still manage to close the range and destroy your missile ship so size does matter .

Now if it was a Dreadnought that you had equipped with a few missile tubes and THEN with lots of guns shields and armor it would all depend on how many PDCs your enemy had and how good his shields and armor were. But a dreadnought even equipped with all guns could wipe the floor with a BC without much trouble.

Now Galactica has everything you could want, Missile Tubes (as mentioned by the XO and CMDR alot) for long range pummeling, she has heavy Rail cannons for medium range fire (as we saw them establish a perimiter against the Raiders) and she has a crapload of deck guns that fire flak and Phalanx style rounds for close in. She pretty much IS her own battlegroup and if enemy fighters slip in she just launches her own wing and blows em up .

[Loser]

Son, you need to buy better tissues. That or not push so hard when you blow your nose. You can damage your ears that way.

[Patroklos]

Well then please explain why evey navy since the beginning of time up too now has all range of combatants. Obviously this is sea versus space, but similarities are plenty. Remember what I said, I battlecruiser with modern weapons, versus a Galactica with obviously less than up to date weaponry (hence decommissioning). And As far as our fighting roles, you need smaller ships for decoys, screening, tactical manuever and other things. And in real life ship cost is exponential, that is as tonage goes up cost rises exponentially. So several smaller ships would be cheaper, and together probobly have more firepower. Let alone the fact that one large ship can only be in one place at one time.

Then of course the question of the navel nomenclature in their universe comes up. What is a Battlestar? Is it an uber battleship, a heavy carrier, or an assault carrier? I say the battlestar is an assault carrier, ie a vessel that mixes carrier function with main battery weaponry. Jack of all trades, master of none. It must take large amounts of space and support operate fighters, and that obviously detracts from ship to ship fighting characteristics.

I do not agree with you SEIV ship construction strategy. Once again, I can build enough battlecruisers to have the same number of weapons as your fewer Dreadnoughts. The diferance is while you are chasing half my fleet my other half has the option of bypassing you and devestating your colonies. The rule isn't to have the most, it is to BE THERE with the most. Besides, your analogy assumes my battlecruisers don't have dedicated carriers that would be much more efficient at the carrier funtion and the ad hoc Galactica. I might even have a PDC dedicated ship (I usually do) to swat your fighters out of the sky on mass. And since we are talking about Battlestars versus smaller craft, all your dreadnaughts would be filled halfway with hanger bays.

On an offshoot, a Battlestar carrying only two squadrons is an extreme waste of space. Each of its side slung hanger bays are the size of a Nimitz carrier, and their fighters are half the size of our aircraft. They could probobly hold hundreds of Vipers.

-Pat