Communists on the moon !

[President_Elect_Shang]

Originally posted by Cyrien:
The Chinese would have a much larger undertaking to get to the moon than the US would to get back. The Chinese have largely been using old Soviet space rockets and technology. The Soviet Lunar rocket for manned flight never worked. So they are starting from scratch there.

Right I agree, they will most likely seek our help and since we can build the technology here it would be cheaper than them tooling a plant of theirs to do the same thing. Thus my point [below] of increased trade.

Lets not all get so excited we get ahead of ourselves. I would have to predict that the US will return to the moon before anyone else goes. The US has been there before. The US has the experience to draw on that no one else does.

This is a good point, the US will need a steppping stone into the system and what better place to use?

[ December 11, 2003, 05:07: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ]

[JurijD]

Originally posted by Cyrien:
The Chinese would have a much larger undertaking to get to the moon than the US would to get back. The Chinese have largely been using old Soviet space rockets and technology. The Soviet Lunar rocket for manned flight never worked. So they are starting from scratch there.

Next, the Chinese moon missions are not manned. That is a rumor. The Chinese plan to land an automated probe on the moon by 2010 and have it return with rock samples. They have themselves denied any plans of landing a man there.

Lets not all get so excited we get ahead of ourselves. I would have to predict that the US will return to the moon before anyone else goes. The US has been there before. The US has the experience to draw on that no one else does.

In general:
Hmm, I still say the EU (ESA) the Japaneese and the Russians (RKA) should get together for a cup of tea and some cookies With the Russians still having most of the know-how in rocet engineering (heck even the americans are buying 30 year old N1 engines from them to put into new titans) and some monetary injections from the EU and Japan these theree should be able to put together something worth while to challenge China and the US. The problem is not money and know-how however... today its simply not COOL to go to space anymore, at least not to the general public and the politicians just don't see how they will justify the HUGE sums of money that would be needed for a new Moon manned program.

About China:
They deny it? Well good that means they are hard at work on it already. As far I remember the Russians and the Americans denied a big part of their programs too until it was time to show them off... say a few months before launch. (Ok, J.F.K did brag about going to the moon... but that was ages ago )

About the US going back to the Moon:
I don't think It'll happen. NASA has no money, no capable rockets and by now the old know-hows are enjoying some R&R in Florida Building a 30 year old rocket again from scratch isn't as easy as it sounds, even if you did it once before. Ok the US has an advantage over China and any other competitors but not a very big one. I say China could catch up in 2, 3 years if they wanted to. I eman if the US was able to do it in less than 9 years in the 1960s', with todays technology I don't think China would need half that time (especially if the russians give thema hand or two... or three)

About the space program in general:
I think these guys got it all wrong. The problem is that there is no long term plan involved. What we are doing now is something similar to this: imagine you were playing a game of SE IV and you only had one small planet under your control. Then instead of colonizing your home system and spreading out you would start not by builing colony ships and building new colonies but by constructing scouts and sending them out to "visit" other solar systems. (of course you'd only be able to build 1 every year because you'd have no income-technology).

I hope to god someone finds some kind of bacteria on Mars, then people will get interested in space once more and the space angencies will have 20 years time to spend spend spend heheh

[ December 11, 2003, 11:15: Message edited by: JurijD ]

[Cyrien]

I have more hope of actual life being found on Europa than on Mars. My personal view is that Mars might have some old fossilized remains but probably not anything currently alive. Europra is much more intriguing in my mind. So are several other of the outer planets moons. Mars just has the publics imagination alot more than any of those and happens to have the benefit of being much closer.

[EvilGenius4ABetterTomorro]

I don't really consider the Chinese communist anymore. Anyway their goal to land on the moon shouldn't cause another space race. If they want to go then more power to them just leave the alien monolith's alone. The next race should be to exploit the resources of the moon. And that contract goes to (drum roll please) Haliburton!

.....We have chronic Haliburtontosis!

[Cyrien]

Strictly speaking that has never been a communist govermnet anywhere in the world. I would call the Chinese Authoritarian Socialistic Capitalism. The Soviets would have been Authoritarian Socialistic Controlled.

Really nation labels that get used today aren't accurate. For most nations you would have to break it down into government type, government citizen care, economic system. Even then you could probably make some strong arguments for throwing in a few other dividers.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

.....We have chronic Haliburtontosis!

????

[Cyrien]

Haliburton. The company that the current Vice President used to be a VP or some such for and that donated large amounts to the Bush campaign. The Company that got the contract to rebuild the oil pipelines in Iraq without any government bidding process to decide who would get it and that it turns out has been overstating the charges for some of the materials needed to do said rebuilding. But the Vice President and the administration weren't playing Favorites. Oh no no no. Not at all.

[oleg]

Oh, yes, the true driving force behind the "War on Terror".
Here is an amusing news flash from BBC news :

"An oil services firm formerly run by US Vice President Dick Cheney may have overcharged US forces in Iraq by some $61m, a Pentagon audit has found."

Can anybody calculate how much a gallon of Iraqi and/or US blood cost now ?

[President_Elect_Shang]

Originally posted by oleg:
Can anybody calculate how much a gallon of Iraqi and/or US blood cost now ?

How much does Iraq/US blood cost? I lost one friend in the first war, and now my wife and mother of our three children is about to go over there in the next month to serve a year tour. I know it is not what you meant, however, I can’t help but to point out that the PRICE of FREEDOM is PRICELESS. Both my wife and I are well aware of that, as well as Jason is R.I.P. 1991.

I submit for the approval of the forum that we be a little more sensitive about addressing the price of oil or freedom in any conflict, past or present in the same line. If we take a survey I bet I am not alone in having experienced the cost first hand. And yes, I am very sensative about this subject right now, can any one of you blame me?

[Roanon]

Originally posted by President Elect Shang:
I can’t help but to point out that the PRICE of FREEDOM is PRICELESS.

I don't want to hurt your feelings, but this war is for oil and money, not for freedom.