Communists on the moon !

[Loser]

I will stand by my contention that the constant, semi-random displacement forces involved in real people living their lives inside a spinning-wheel space station are sufficient to make the concept wholly impractical without significantly different means of station-keeping. Every bit of thruster fuel has to be lifted to orbit as well, and I contend, as well, that it will be expended at a fairly rapid pace.

I will allow that Lagrange points four and five may compensate for this, but I wouldn't hold that up as certain until I get a better grip on the scale of the forces involved on both sides.

As I so not expect anyone here to come up with a nice, concise, understandable model that will prove this one way or another, I'm perfectly happy to leave the discussion as it stands. I have pointed out everything I think is involved, and I think you and I have different expectations where the scale of the disturbing forces are concerned, Geo.

Of course, if someone does want to do the math and whip up a nice computer model, I would be overjoyed to get my hands on the toy.

[rdouglass]

Originally posted by Puke:
Just think about the whacky adventures that the commander of Luna-one, our first moon base, will have!

and that was all over FOUR YEARS AGO!

More like TWENTY four...

Am I old! Yeah, I got the reference to Martin Landau and Barbara Bains...

[Cyrien]

I think he is more refering to it all happening in 1999 in the original show.

I love old Sci-Fi in both book and movie form with their predictions of what their future our past/present would be like.

[Suicide Junkie]

Originally posted by Loser:
I will stand by my contention that the constant, semi-random displacement forces involved in real people living their lives inside a spinning-wheel space station are sufficient to make the concept wholly impractical without significantly different means of station-keeping. Every bit of thruster fuel has to be lifted to orbit as well, and I contend, as well, that it will be expended at a fairly rapid pace.

I will allow that Lagrange points four and five may compensate for this, but I wouldn't hold that up as certain until I get a better grip on the scale of the forces involved on both sides.

As I so not expect anyone here to come up with a nice, concise, understandable model that will prove this one way or another, I'm perfectly happy to leave the discussion as it stands. I have pointed out everything I think is involved, and I think you and I have different expectations where the scale of the disturbing forces are concerned, Geo.

Of course, if someone does want to do the math and whip up a nice computer model, I would be overjoyed to get my hands on the toy.

Assuming everything stays inside the station, the center of mass will remain in a consistent position.
If you set up the station to be initially stationary at the L-points, the center of mass will remain there no matter what the people inside do, due to newton's laws.

When you open airlocks to let people and cargo in and out, you will only need to compensate once. Given a large station, and reasonable care the motions induced by external traffic will be minor.

Using an Ion thruster or even a magnetic sail to maintain stationkeeping would be very useful too. Very little thrust, but you have plenty of time and don't need to accelerate much.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Assuming everything stays inside the station, the center of mass will remain in a consistent position.

No, I don't think this is right either. Loser is right when he says there will be some reaction to people walking around the inside of the station. As they exert force against the deck plates to go in one direction the station will have an equal reaction in the opposite direction. I just think he's way over estimating the amount the reaction will affect the station. The difference in mass between the person and the station means that almost all the energy moves the person and almost none of it moves the station. So while there will be a force applied to the station it would be imperceptable I believe.

Geoschmo

[Suicide Junkie]

Originally posted by geoschmo:

quote:

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Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Assuming everything stays inside the station, the center of mass will remain in a consistent position.

No, I don't think this is right either. Loser is right when he says there will be some reaction to people walking around the inside of the station. As they exert force against the deck plates to go in one direction the station will have an equal reaction in the opposite direction. I just think he's way over estimating the amount the reaction will affect the station. The difference in mass between the person and the station means that almost all the energy moves the person and almost none of it moves the station. So while there will be a force applied to the station it would be imperceptable I believe.

Geoschmo

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Ah, but they can only keep going in that direction for so long before they hit the far wall.

Then you cancel out the velocity you and the station had while you were on your trip.

The biggest effect you could get is if everybody ran from one side to the other all at once. (Much faster than a rotation of the station, for simplicity.)
If the station's mass is 100 times what the people total, then the people moving 100m would cause the station to move 1m in the other direction, and the center of mass (people + station) would still be in the same spot (right smack dab on the L-point where it started)

[narf poit chez BOOM]

what it would do is viberate, maybe more, maybe less as forces bounced around inside. but, baring momentum transmitted to space dust, the viberation would center on an orbiting point.