Military Buffs I need your help.

[rextorres]

[quote]Originally posted by Atrocities:

RexTorres, that has got to be the most conspiritorial revisionistic comment that I have ever read. Seriously I am ROTFLMAO. Thanks for the humor man.

Narratio - Well spoken. Thank you.

Atrocities - dropping the a-bomb wasn't meant to save civilian lives - I guess it's hard for flag wavers to admit that the U.S. was already killing hundred of thousands of civilian lives - not admitting THIS is revisionist.

The Japanese were already shocked and awed and just needed a way to surrender.

Here is a quote from President Truman to Samuel McCrea Cavert, August 11, 1945 that talks about the revenge factor.
http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistle...mall/mb13a.htm

Also we didn't tell the Japanese we had an A-bomb until AFTER we dropped it so there was no way they would have known what was coming. Those leaflets you are so proud of were not dropped until AFTER Hiroshima. So the Japanese were not given any warning prior to the dropping in Hiroshima and Nagasaki happened only 3 days later not enough time for them to even think about the first bomb's effects.

Just because I don't agree with you that the Japanese deserved getting hit with an A-bomb doesn't make me wrong.

On the bright side - it probably stopped a nuclear war with the Russians.

[ December 11, 2003, 19:14: Message edited by: rextorres ]

[Wardad]

I read that there were only two potential landing sites for an invasion of Japan (main island) and these were well defended. The Japanese also believed the Divine Wind (typhoon) would also protect them from invasion, as it did against the Mongols.
http://danielroy.tripod.com/cgi-bin/...olia/opi2.html

The bombs demonstrated that landing defenses could easily be shattered. The bombs could not be stopped by typhoon.

I am sure that some military men lost the desire to see it through to the bloody end because of the bomb. It is one thing to sacrifice yourself, another thing to sacrifice yourself in vain, and worse to sacrifice yourself and everything you are fighting for.


BTW: http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq102-6.htm
Okinowa was hit by a typhoon a month after the Japanese surrender. A lot of material was lost, a lot of ships were scrapped, and there was a loss of life.
But, it was nothing compared what could have happen if the island was full of troops, planes and ships preparing for an invasion. The survivors would have been defenseless.

[ December 11, 2003, 19:20: Message edited by: Wardad ]

[Parasite]

Originally posted by Prince Xizor:
"It is my earnest hope, and indeed the hope of all mankind, that from this solemn occasion a better world shall emerge out of the blood and carnage of the past -- a world dedicated to the dignity of man and the fulfillment of his most cherished wish for freedom, tolerance and justice." - General Douglas MacArthur [surrender ceremony on the USS Missouri, Sep. 2, 1945]

With help from the prince, this came up...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/macarth...cspeech04.html

[Cyrien]

What is this I keep hearing about the US only having the two atomic bombs? Even while the US was bombing it was producing more atomic cores for a sustained atomic bombing effort if Japan failed to surrender. The next one was scheduled to be shipped from Los Alamos and arrive for use against Japan on August 17 or 18. There was a whole list of potential targets. The leaflets were deployed after the first atomic bomb was dropped warning other Japanese cities to evacuate. The leaflets scheduled for Nagasaki didn't get their until August 10 which would have been before the original schedule for bombing but the schedule was moved up due to bad weather forcasts, and of course Nagasaki was the backup target. The primary target had been the Kokura Arsenal however weather prevented the bombing of that target and Nagasaki was the only backup target which weather permitted the bombing of.

I won't go into the morality of the use of atomic bombs on Japan. Or the morale justification for the Japanese release of the first modern bio weapons over China etc... etc...

A timeline:http://vikingphoenix.com/public/Japa...5/abombchr.htm

Japanese Bio Weapons:
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/japan/bw/

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Narf, you are a walking, breathing red herring. You make things interesting. Thank you.

um...thanks????

from one of those sources, it seems like they didn't make any great effort with the leaflets. both that and the short interval's between the bombs lends credence to the theory that the bombs were dropped to kill and terrify. ok, now can anyone point to any official corrospondence that indicates that Japan was ready to surrender? any that indicates that the Japanese emporer was involved in the war crimes? or that the refusal to surrender was hinged on wether or not he'd be charged? and even if so, would that be enough reason to extend the war to get him?

i'm not trying to make a point with the questions, just asking.

[ December 11, 2003, 21:09: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Cyrien:
What is this I keep hearing about the US only having the two atomic bombs? Even while the US was bombing it was producing more atomic cores for a sustained atomic bombing effort if Japan failed to surrender. The next one was scheduled to be shipped from Los Alamos and arrive for use against Japan on August 17 or 18

I had always told that the US had no more and wasn't likely to have any more for months at best. Don't have anything to support it really, just thought it was common knowledge and accepted it as fact.

Geoschmo

[Geckomlis]

Narf,

Try:

Behind Japan's surrender; the secret struggle that ended an empire
by Lester Brooks

Gecko