The AI... when will ìt earn its "I"?

[Roanon]

I agree, Geo, but only partially. Being a programmer myself, I know how difficult it would be to programm a real AI. To be as creative as a human, as resourceful, considering all options and possible strategies derived from whole sets of options, thinking ahead a few turns and choose the best way to act for multiple units as a strong, simultaneously striking force, persuing a final goal consisting of numerous single targets and objectives - impossible with the technology at hands right now.

AI able to ACT like a human - ok, lets put that aside. But what I, too, consider as "not doing a job" is really *stupid* AI that does not even know how to REACT properly. There are a lot of simple problems - own fleet out of supply, enemy fleet near own planet, enemy planet in friendly system, etc - that the current AI has no real Algorithm for to cope with. Instead, it seems that each turn each fleet decides anew what to do, independent of all other fleet actions, unaware of longtime major problems and the overall global situation but reacting to nearby local events happening Last turn, mixed with a good shot of the random generator. This could have been done better in nearly all games I know. Though this also is not simple - for small companies like MM it might just be too expensive, but I cannot accept excuses like this from big companies obviously spending like 100 times more money on graphics and design than on AI programming.

Yes, it might be possible to play a challenging game vs. the AI. But this is always happening like an elderly grandpa engaging in hand-to-hand combat against a young strong brutish bully - and winning finally. Looks challenging, is not. And advices like "if you want it more interesting, tie the grandpa one hand on the back and blindfold him" may sound interesting, but he still is winning, and this just makes it more ridiculous.

Thank god (and Geo!) for PBW !!!

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Roanon:
Instead, it seems that each turn each fleet decides anew what to do, independent of all other fleet actions, unaware of longtime major problems and the overall global situation but reacting to nearby local events happening Last turn, mixed with a good shot of the random generator.

Actually, as far as Se4 is concerned, it not only seems that way, that's exactly the way it is, except for the random generator part.

[ December 22, 2003, 00:19: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[DavidG]

just out of curiosity can anyone name a turn based strategy game with a good AI?
(AI's that can win by just boosting their resources, research etc way higher than the human player don't count)

Of course there are a few simple things that could be done to improve the SE4 AI. One I can think of is for the AI to recognize when it runs into a minefield and not do it 20 turns in a row.

[Fyron]

Galactic Civilizations has a fairly good AI.

[Starhawk]

Try playing the AI on high and in a big universe where the Comps have enough time to build their fleets like you do. And start at absolute low tech and with the medium resources and the like. That should give you a challenge because it has given me a challenge and an enjoyable experiance in almost every demo game I've played of SEIV.

Of course some races seem to be stupid like for example the EEE which always underarm their ships compared to EVERYONE else as well as have inferior shields and armor to just about every other race I've ever seen play against them.

I mean this one time I saw a fleet of Jreanor controlled by the AI attack a LARGER fleet of EEE ships and come out victorious!!!

I mean is it just me who thinks the EEE are mentally slow when it comes to arming their warships for war and not just a little girl slapfight?

But there are things like TDM which I am not quite sure if all it does is improve the AI or if it screws around with absolutely everything. Could someone please tell me exactly how TDM works, does it just improve the AI or does it as I stated above screw with building and science and other stuff like that?

[Fyron]

TDM is an AI mod. It does not change the stock data.

[Q]

I agree that SE IV is a very rich and therefore complicated game and therefore a good AI will be difficult to programm. But from the business aspect a good AI will be a good sales argument for a game. And if you analyse the major mistakes the AI makes you could improve it considerably.
Just one example: in the decision making of the AI one point seems IMO always to be crucially underated: the distance! The AI sends colonizers half way across the quadrant while a colonizable planet is one move away. Probably because the planet value and atmosphere type has absolute priority. The same for attack locations: undefended enemy colonies are in reach but the AI sends the entire fleet on a mission to the opppsite edge of the empire for reasons I can only speculate.
Make all these decision processes of the AI moddable and MM can leave most of the work to us! But that's probably for SE V.