OT: Galactic sterilisation

[Fyron]

Don't be so impatient. Those Posts took very little time to write and could be squeezed in between turns for various PBW games.

You do not have to classify "the military" as the Department of Defense (assuming you are talking about US military in particular) in order to still not have it be directly about the soldiers personally. Doing so certainly helps in some regards, but it is not necessary. "The military" does not equal "the soldiers" any more than "the government" equals employees of various agencies.

Now about cats and dogs... "the military" is "cats" and "the soldiers" are "dogs" (for purposes of reference to your post only, no real connection with either animal). Two separate entities that should not be confused.

Of course, there are some soldiers that deserve to be made fun of (such as Jessica Lynch), but that is another issue.

I understood your point of view from the beginning. I have been trying to portray the other point of view (the less "sensational" one). If I did not understand your point of view, how could I hope to explain another to you?

[President_Elect_Shang]

It is very easy to debate a point without understanding the other persons point. I see where you are coming from with your Version of the cats and dogs analogy, but I sense that you missed mine. Mine was that a cat is a cat and a dog is a dog, nothing to do with soldiers or military, which is why it was an analogy. In my framework (of the cat and dog) you are asking me to reverse the names. I am very disheartened by what seems to be a lack of compromise on your point, and an attempt to prolong this debate so that you can avoid reaching a compromise. Do you agree to meet me half way or not Fyron?

[Fyron]

It is quite possible that we have reached a cultural impasse here with our terminology. The terminology is not so important, as the concept is. Call it what you wish, but just keep in mind that there are many people that mean the organiztions of the military rather than the specific soldiers in it when they use the term "the military."

[President_Elect_Shang]

First I am not sure what you mean by cultural impasse, it just sounds to me that you are digging for a means to avoid saying yes or no to my question. Secondly if I am to assume that my speculation is correct than I can see that you are incapable of meeting me in such a simple request. Opinions are based upon the growth and learned experiences a person passes through in ones life. If you can not compromise than you can not grow or learn. It would have been very simple for you to have said:

You may have a point; I will take it into consideration.

[Rob]

Grr.. seems I forgot my old login password and the system doesnt seem to have the correct e-mail address for me. Anyway.. I was mostly a lurker so it doesnt matter.. Im nobody anyone here would know anyway

As for election results.. Its one of my pet peeves when people spout off numbers with no backing documentation. So.. here are some numbers relevant to some of the um... arguments going on here.

Election 2000
Total cast votes: 105,405,100
Bush 50,456,002 votes, 47.87%
Gore 50,999,897 votes, 48.38%

Total Electoral Vote = 538
Total Electoral Vote Needed to Elect = 270
Bush 271
Gore 266

Sources
Official 2000 Presidential Election Results
CNN 2000 Presidential Election Results

So, Yes, Gore won the popular vote by 543,895 votes. That was 0.51% of the votes cast which falls well within the margin of error for the voting machines used throughout most of the US.

The reality is that the election was so evenly split that neither Bush nor Gore could claim a clear victory in the popular vote. This split was mirrored in the state of Florida where the final results for Election 2000 were determined. Both political parties pulled out all the stops to manipulate the vote counts in that state. It so happens that the LAW and voting standards agreed on BEFORE the election started were upheld in the state, giving Bush the edge necessary to win. It was the right decision to make at the time even if the voting standards were not optimal. To do otherwise would be to invite chaos. Hopefully, the problematic standards experienced in Florida in 2000 have been rectified for the next election.

Now, moving on to the so called "Extinction" and "Slaughter" of the Natives by "Americans". I happen to BE one of those Natives.. or at least a decendent of one. My mother is Cherokee and we are both very much alive and well. I also happen to be Greek by ancestory as well. I will admit that the traditional culture of my Native American ancestors is not practiced much anymore due to being absorbed into the "European" culture of my OTHER ancestors. All of which has evolved into a new culture that the rest of the world calls "American".


And finaly, on the topic of the military and morons, I have a comment. The popular concept of a military full of morons is rather.. well.. moronic in itself. To make the assertion that the only people who re-enlist in the military are people of lesser intelligence is incorrect. The people who re-enlist are simply the people who have found that the military lifestyle suits them. It says NOTHING about their level of intelligence. The same incorrect assumptions are made about Sports Stars. It is automaticaly assumed that talent at playing football (or any other physical sport) means the person is intellectualy challenged. As if playing sports is a less desirable job, only suitable for people unable to learn to do a more usefull job.. like software engineering.

I guess what I am saying is that choosing a Military lifestyle does NOT make the person "Stupid." The reason some people think that it IS stupid is pretty simple to figure out realy. Humans have a tendency to think that anyone who thinks differently than they do, must be stupid. Therefore, those people who think that the military is a bad choice of career (those who serve one tour of duty) conclude that people who think otherwise (Lifers in Military Speak) MUST be stupid.

Rob

[Puke]

Yep. It was a close election because of apathy and dissalusionment. no one cared who won, and it was reflected in the national culture and in the polls. hardly any sense in arguing about it now.

And yes, people already chased themselves in circles just to decide that no one actually had anything against the military, nor thought that all re-enlistees were dumb. We dont actually think that all people working in an office are from Dilbert comic strips, and not all career academics are directionless and without practical value to society.

but some generalizations are ammusing to joke about. like dilbert comic strips, and military inteligence, and hippies from berkeley.

As you say, someone's long term career choice is more of a reflection of what fits their personality and desired style of living, than anything else. There used to be a popular generalization that those who were unfit for any other kind of work, became teachers. Certainly there are some poor teachers out there, but most of them have chosen that role because it fits their personality and their lifes goals.

As for being Greek, you have my condolences regarding the Eastern Roman Empire. They really had a good thing going, and I'm sorry it didnt Last. Unless, of course, you consider your heritage to predate the Levant and stem from the Greek city states of antiquity, in which case my sentiments have been wasted. But if it helps, you have my condolences about them too, as they also had a good thing going.

I myself have no heritage to speak of, and am a sorry example of random breeding.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

I myself have no heritage to speak of, and am a sorry example of random breeding.

hey, i can make jokes about eight, maybe ten different nationalities! random breeding is fun!

[ January 16, 2004, 10:17: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]