future Interplanetary Civilization discussion.

[Member 4148]

interstellar empire possibilites will depend on two things: communication and travel time

without high ftl communication and travel, no empire is possible
its possible, just barely, to hold an empire together with travel and communication time measured in weeks
more than that, and it simply won't work long term - if it is six weeks between when a colony rebels and you find out about it, and another six weeks to get any forces there to do something, the rebel colony will be pretty much lost to the empire by the time the troops arrive
with delay measured in weeks, a loose confederacy is about the most that is possible

if travel/communications measured in years due to non-ftl travel, no empire possible beyond local star system

if travel/communications measured in days or less, pick a government - any large-scale government that has worked for a time on earth could work for a time in space - with the proviso that people could flee a long long ways

[Renegade 13]

Likely, there would only be pockets of 'civilization' where there are habitable systems. Each group would answer only to themselves and have very little or no contact with the other systems. That is, unless a method of FTL travel and communication is devised. In that case, a traditional empire like association may be possible, still depending on how much faster than light the communication and travel were.

[rdouglass]

I agree that if there is no FTL communications, there would be local authority control. Without effective communications to govern colonies, no authority would realistically take place.

Has anyone read the two Frank Herbert books;'The Jesus Incident' and 'The Lazarus Effect'? (those are the titles if my memory serves me correct) 'Jesus Incident' was based around the concept of no FTL communications or travel and a ship named "Ship" (notice capital 'S' like capital 'G' in 'God'.) Ship went thruout the universe cloning humans from the genetic material on board and training these folks (with their inherited traits and abilities) to establish colonies. 'Lazarus Effect' was a book about the 'end results' of one of the colonies.

I won't spoil the books by telling the story, but the concept was an interesting twist on celestial 'seeding' of human colonies. A good read for SF fans IMO....

[Will]

Amazon {link} says those are the middle two in a series of four. Sounds interesting, though.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

so, the first task is to arbitrarly decide on the possible space travel available? ok, then, arbitrarly, ion engines, cheap, low-tech, relativily. solar sail, no fuel required, low pay-load, requires stable civilization to build and mantain laser. ramscoop, can only be used in areas of high hydrogen density, high tech, fastest.

solar sails can be laser-decelerated from the other end by detaching part of the solar sail to use as a reflecter. so said, i think, Arther C. Clarke in a book i have.

and i'll let more knowledgeable people figure out how fast those might be in the future. although the Last projection i heard for solar sails, which was a while ago, was 0.001g.

should make an interesting galaxy to figure out stuff for.

ripping off-err, 'researching' Larry Niven is allowed.

but if anyone even *thinks* about introducing a feline race i'll whack them.

anyone know any other possible, non-FTL engines? no unknown science, predictable technology only.

[ February 02, 2004, 23:09: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Paul1980au]

Assuming based upon current technology that it takes 6 months - 12 months to travel to mars. It would have to be a self governing colony with contact with earth - FTL communications might allow a limited empire but FTL would be the only thing that succeeds.

[Atrocities]

This topic is mute for there is no life out there or non that we will at least meet in the next 10 trillion years.

[ February 02, 2004, 23:30: Message edited by: Atrocities ]