more scary stuff

[solops]

Originally posted by alarikf:
I'm glad someone came forth to say the emperor has no clothes. I avoided it becuase of the risks of bringing up politics in this very important issue which should NOT be political which always seems to be...and for the wrong reasons.

[/QB][/quote]

Energy is an engineering problem. It becomes political as soon as people don't get what they want, be it money or cheap products or satisfaction of their pet convictions, i.e. pretty quick.

[ February 12, 2004, 17:20: Message edited by: solops ]

[AMF]

Absolutely agree. Who was it first defined politics as the distribution of scarce resources...?

Originally posted by solops:
Energy is an engineering problem. It becomes political as soon as people don't get what they want, be it money or cheap products or satisfaction of their pet convictions, i.e. pretty quick.

[rextorres]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Umm... I was not engaging in any sort of political discussion, more of a factual one... you can't really fight what the planet does to itself to cause damage.

Well . . . the Volcano myth has been one of the arguments proposed by some political pundits (Rush, for instance, has long diatribes about it in his books) as a reason to ignore warnings by "wackos" about damage humans cause the ozone layer and to suggest that they are trying to disrupt the "American way of life".

With that said, climate change would happen even if humans didn't exist. So the fact that humans help change it is probably a moot issue because ANY changes would probably be bad for us anyway.

[ February 12, 2004, 18:09: Message edited by: rextorres ]

[Will]

Excuse me, but I just read through this really fast. If I missed something, I'll come back after class and amend myself

The statement that volcanoes release more 'pollutants' than humans do is really a factual one. Some eruptions can release more sulfur dioxide (which causes sulfuric acid rain) in the span of a week then humanity has in a few to several years. Ditto for carbon mono- and di-oxide, methane, etc. It is a natural process, which has a natural recovery time faster than what most environmental Groups are willing to admit.

This doesn't mean, however, that humanity should be contributing more to it. I, like Fyron, live around LA right now. The Last time I had a breath of fresh air was just after it had stopped raining, and most of the smog was filtered out of the air... the stuff ain't healthy. There are lots of people shouting at both ends of the spectrum ("Save the Planet!", "Don't mess with our way of life!"), and usually when you have two diametrically opposed Groups like that, the 'right answer' is somewhere in between.

Eh, I'll finish later...

[rextorres]

Coincidently the EPA calls it a myth too.

http://www.epa.gov/spdpublc/science/volcano.html

Unfortunately too many people read Rush (a "political" pundit who has taken the lead on this issue and made the myth popular) and take his word at face value as if he were some authority.

BTW: If you were to read Fyron's "proofs" they suggest that Volcanic Eruptions ADD to the depletion NOT that they cause it.

[Fyron]

Leave it to Rex to distort a non-political conversation to politics. I could really care less what Rush Limbaugh says, and you have been a much greater source of knowledge about his viewpoints today than I have ever had in the past.

Volcanic eruptions and the amount of pollutants they spew out are no myth. Stating that humanity's actions are the sole cause of the hole in the ozone layer is a myth. As I stated before, they are a contributing factor, but not _the_ (as in, singular, most contributing) cause of it.

BTW: If you were to read Fyron's "proofs" they suggest that Volcanic Eruptions ADD to the depletion NOT that they cause it.

What proofs? I provided no proofs. Supporting evidence maybe, but certainly not proofs. And that certainly is a biased reading of them.

[ February 13, 2004, 02:32: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[rextorres]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
we just did not cause the hole in the ozone layer over Antarctica. That was caused by massive volcanic eruptions.

That's the myth! That's what you wrote. You are wrong.

The Volcano Myth certainly is political because it has been used exstensively by political pundits - if not you - to discredit environmentalists and confuse the issues.

Anyway - as I said - I think the whole issue is moot because climate change will happen regardless of what we do.

[ February 13, 2004, 03:33: Message edited by: rextorres ]