OT:splendid WWII movie you'll never see:(

[AMF]

Oleg,

I live in Norfolk Virignia, US. If you are ever in the area you should check out the Naro cinema and video rental store. Why? becuase they are simply amazing in their selection. Specifically, they have an entire bookshelf of hundreds (4-500) of movies from Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, etc.. I admit I haven;t yet rented any of them, but I will at some point...in any case, my point is: all is not lost! There are outlets and audiences for Slavic Cinema in the US!

thanks,

Alarik

Originally posted by oleg:
Because it will never be shown in US or UK.
Maybe in Germany or France - they are more tolerant of non-Holywood production.

When did you Last see a russian movie ? And there are a lot of very good, believe me but they will never shown in the West - no happy ending, no waving of US flag and why bother to translate that slavic gibberish??

[Thermodyne]

Marketing is why you prolly wont see it in the states.

BUT.....This is a issue that can be debated at length. So I will toss the first stone


Every story has two sides. The point should be made that the Americans and British did not want the convoy to sail until early winter. The route was well covered by land based air and there were significant German navel units in the area. In 1942, the British were very short of convoy escort units and needed them to protect their own life lines. The Soviets forced the issue and the convoy sailed. A side note here that is ignored by history is how close the USSR came to making a separate peace with Germany.

The convoy was originally escorted by the carriers HMS Victorious and USS Washington. But these could not be risked past the North Cape because of German air power. The escort which had four destroyers and 10 corvettes (armed trawlers) and five detached cruisers. The cruisers were not the big gun variety, but small fast sub hunters. When the Tripitz and Prinz Eugen sailed along with about 10 destroyers, the British ships were forced to flee. Common tactical practicality dictated this action. Then the Germans flew more than 200 sorties against the convoy also attacking with 4 U boats.

The blame here lies with the Soviet government. They demanded that the convoy sail against the advice of their allies, and the blame falls squarely upon their mismanagement of the Soviet military and conduct of the war.

PQ 18 was held until fall and was escorted by (IIRC) 50+ ships. Losses were also bad, 13 ships were sunk. PQ 19 sailed in December, when weather and season were poor for air operations, and had light losses. Had the Soviets not insisted on the sailing, PQ 17 would have been held until late November or early December.

To have asked escort ships to engage a battle wagon in the company of a very heavy cruiser is madness. To ask that the sacrifice be made in the absence of a specific immediate tactical need is stupid. Add in a 2+ to 1 superiority in destroyers, and you have to ask why the convoy ever sailed in the long days of summer. Had no bombs ever found their mark, the German surface units would have brushed aside the escorts and decimated the convoy.

This issue surfaces every decade or so, and has even been the basis of court actions. But the facts remain the same. The convoy should have never sailed. And a country the size of the USSR should have never been in the position of having to rely on imported material to stop the Germans. This is just one more example of how badly soviet communism failed to serve the Soviet people. And trying to lay the blame on the British is just more rewriting of history, which is nothing new for the Soviets.

[Atrocities]

If hollywood can't make a buck off it, it don't get no hollywood play.

[oleg]

Originally posted by aiken:
I think it will be a second screening of Valentin Pikul's book. First one was "Bayazet" and it was awfull. Hope this attempt will be better.

Yes, it is a screening of Pikul' book. So I have a reservation - for non-russinas here, Pikul, IMHO is a cheap bestsellerist (hmm. ) who can bloody ruin any historic event - but he is a popular in russia as Crighton (sp., sorry) in US.

Now, PQ-17 was a trully important WWII event, it could balance WWII one way or another and I would be realy sorry to see "Convoy PQ-17" follow Pikul' storyline.

It was an epic story of Heroism, Sacrifice, Cowardice and Betrail - two later terms go directly to Admiralty, sailors and officers of HM ships would fullfil their duty and save PQ-17. If only Lords have been so cowardly

[narf poit chez BOOM]

And trying to lay the blame on the British is just more rewriting of history, which is nothing new for the Soviets.

the patriot? it's nothing new for hollywood, either.

[oleg]

Thermo, we can start argue again here


Yes, PQ-17 and PQ-18 were bloody dead important.
Russia was fighting Wermascht with her latest reserves.

So it was F..g Bloody important that those supplys come through. Or, according to you - I strongly disagree, Russia would never surrender - but those ships HAD TO COME TO MURMANSK AT ANY COST. Any loss of HM destroyers and cruisers were IRRELEVANT - That is F... B... what the Navy is for. But they COWARDLY retreated, because his Admiral BLOODY F..G cared more about His position in Admiralty then the Outcome of World War Two !!!

[ February 13, 2004, 23:48: Message edited by: oleg ]

[Unknown_Enemy]

Originally posted by aiken:
compare "Solaris" by Tarkovsky and Last Sodenberg rubbish and everything will be clear. (You may also compare them both with original Lem's book and you'll understand who is the best sci-fi writer of XX century).

Not the best, but definitely a classic.
I could not bother seeing the Last picture iteration.