Newtonian ships or not?.

[geoschmo]

That's a very positive scenario Pvk. There is no reason not to believe it, and I do hope for it to be true.

My own suspicions are a little more pessimistic. Not quite as negative as Atrocities though.

I think we are going to find it's exceedingly difficult to travel between the stars. I do have some hope that we will someday make contact with other intelligent races by radio, or some similer means of long distance communication. I could easily see a vast communication network of intelligent races sharing information about themselves. Of course even at light speed it would be slow, but the mere fact someone is out there talking to you would be fascinating.

Over time you could get enough information about one another to take "virtual" trips to one anothers planets.

[JurijD]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
I think we are going to find it's exceedingly difficult to travel between the stars. I do have some hope that we will someday make contact with other intelligent races by radio, or some similer means of long distance communication. I could easily see a vast communication network of intelligent races sharing information about themselves. Of course even at light speed it would be slow, but the mere fact someone is out there talking to you would be fascinating.

Over time you could get enough information about one another to take "virtual" trips to one anothers planets.

I hope you see what you are doing here you are exchanging one fantasy (the idea that we can travel among the stars using space ships)- an idea you find improbable, with another fantasy: namely that we'll be able to decrypt ALIEN Languages withouth ever making physical contact with the aliens. I don't know why you think that is more probable that the first "fantasy". For me its very unlikely that we'll be able to make any sense of some gobbly gook we get over an antenna... if we'l even be able to identify it when/if it comes.

don't you see what we are doing here... its like 2 pesant from the Dark ages would start arguing weather one could build "ships" that would fly like the birds.

Pesant1: I think we will find it exeedingly difficult and since it would require enormous energy to sustain such ships in flight even if we could do it it wouln't be practical in any way. And besides it would be very dangeus to fly. No... I think people will never go far from their place of birth, why should they... if we want to talk to other people on other continets we can just send them a mail. Sure it takes a while to get there but its better than nothing.

Pesant2: I think its gonna be inevitable that we develop such flying ships... the same as our ancestors developed the wheel and then the ship. Its just another step.

Pesant1: no no... listen why would you want to be flying around and making new "countries" all over the place?? they'll just end up goint to war with one another.

Pesant2: Nah you're crazy old man, I wonder why I even bother talking to you!

Pesant1: Your mamma!

Pesant2: Now why did you have to bring my mummy into this. Now'll have to hurt you...

... it got ugly then

So my point is that we don't know what the hell we are talking about. We just don't have any real experiance in how difficult or how easy space flight is. Its silly to argue if its possible or not.

[ March 28, 2004, 20:52: Message edited by: JurijD ]

[geoschmo]

I don't really consider this an argument. It's a discussion. Perhaps a debate at some points of disagrement, but that's kind of the reason for having a public forum, to discuss one anothers opinions, see things from a different perspective, and learn new things.

Your point we don't really know any of this stuff that we are talking about is kind of redundant. I think it's pretty clear from my comments that I don't diasgree with this. I'm not sure if you haven't read what I said, or if I wasn't clear. Or it could just be that you are restating it in your own words. That's fine too. It's all part of the discussion.

As far as comunication between alien cultures being a fantasy. I totally disagree. Difficult? Of course. But not impossible. It's not likely to be something we crack in a manner of weeks like the book Contact or anything. But the book does have a pretty good idea about one way we could possibly learn to communicate with each other through mathematics. Even if the time frames are unrealistic. Probably it will take generations of work on both ends before we get beyond anything more complicated then just being aware of each others presence.

[Baron Munchausen]

Of course the underlying assumption(s) to all of this speculation is that any 'intelligent' race would want to expand across the cosmos. And further that civilizations would remain stable enough to do so. Why do we assume that? Maybe most races are content to remain on the planet where they evolved -- or at least in the same star system -- and solve all of the riddles of mathematics and philosophy. Or play video games...

Or maybe they are all like us and too busy competing with and killing each other to cooperate long enough to even get out of their own atmosphere...