Mistake in PPB data?

[Arkcon]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
I suggest looking to SE3 for weapons balance.

Well, I suggest looking at SJ's Pirates and Nomads mod to see a good example of PPB balance.

It does seem that the PPB is a little unfair as a weapon. But that may be the point. Against the standard AI, once you figure out to rush the research, you can beat the AI easily. Once you've beaten the AI a few times, you can ignore the PPB to handicap yourself.

[Fyron]

You can often be just as effective, if not even far more effective, by rushing for Combat Support 2 and Sensors 2 instead, as well as training. PPBs are not really a necessary weapon in most cases, especially given their high cost. Of course, it all depends on whether the enemy has had time to research these things and their PPBs or not when war breaks out. But usually, better combat bonuses can defeat better weapons.

[Grandpa Kim]

In PBW games, I find I get PPB about the same time the other players get phased shields. Honestly, it's been so long since I even researched PPB, I forget just how good they are.
I've learned from Fyron: go for APB!

[Phoenix-D]

Most of the stuff that seems obvious, isn't.

You can get Meson VI a LOT faster than APB XII, for example and do 1.75 dmg/kt at max range. Torps? 2.5 dmg/kt vs APB's 1.67 at rng 6 and 2.16 at min. The fire rate cuts that in half, but they were likely built as counters to things like emissive armor and crystalline armor.

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by UseOfWeps:
Sorry for resurrecting a long dead issue. I only started playing reasonably recently, and didn't see anything in the Dubious guide about missing levels, just under costing. So I thought I had a new angle, but more likely someone else has noticed the discrepancies in damage increases and posted it here before me.

/UseOfWeps.

Your post about the PPB was very on target and don't let the fact that it has been discussed before scare you off the topic.

You did an excellent job of showing the problem and I for one appreciate it. Thanks.

[spoon]

I find that the strength of the PPB varies with the size of the game... Some games they dominate, other games they are wasted research. KOTH games (usually quick, 1 vs 1 games on small map) generally don't see them as much. In a game where allies are trading tech, they can dominate the midgame. But by the time the end game rolls around, they are usually replaced with the APB.

Other suggested tweaks I've seen that seem good:
- considerably reduce the damage for levels 1 and 2
- reduce damage on all levels by 5-10
- give it a -10% to hit
- increase the Rads cost (which is already quite high)
- make Physics 3 a prereq instead of physics 2 (maybe swapping it with Cloaking Technology)

Another factor that might make the PPB seem so amazing in your group is "groupthink" -- since everyone is using it, esp the winner, it appears that it is the only weapon worth using. It is a good weapon, but in certain situations (mostly economical), I think the Meson BLaster is the better midgame choice. And if my research is low for whatever reason, the lowly DUC IV can sometimes suffice.

[spoon]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
You can often be just as effective, if not even far more effective, by rushing for Combat Support 2 and Sensors 2 instead, as well as training.

Definitely. Don't research past DUCs until you have these areas researched.