Gandalf Parker and the SEIV Forum

[Renegade 13]

When I was a newcomer to the forums (back in September 2003 I think) I primarily came to find out things about SEIV that I hadn't known before, to learn new tactics, and to converse with other people who play this great game.

However, right away I was interested in the OT threads. I don't live in a large community. Actually, I live in the middle of nowhere, and this is really the only place I can have a mature discussion with other reasonable people on subjects that are non-SEIV related. Subjects such as politics and religion can get a little heated sometimes, but the other 99% of the time, they're completely reasonable.

Basically, it was SEIV that brought me here, but in large part, its been the community and the interest of the OT Posts that has kept me here, and likely will keep me here until everyone else has left!! Would I still come here if the OT Posts were gone?? Maybe, but only to ask the occaisional question I had. To be totally honest, checking this forum, and reading all the discussions (especially the OT ones) is one of the high points of an otherwise difficult day.

So to add my voice to all the others, please don't do away with, or restrict the OT threads. They really are an integral part of this community, and it wouldn't be the same without them.

[Suicide Junkie]

When I first saw Mr Parker's Posts, I took him for a old cranky newbie, and didn't think too much of it...

After the Posts about removing all the OT threads started building up, I went to say something to him.
Only then, on the way to the PM button, did I notice his post count...
Such a discrepancy made me look around a bit, and at the sight of "Advisor", my first thought was "Oh, $#!^, they're actually going to do it."

*cue flashback to planet of the apes*

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Even the hardest newbie questions answered in 30 minutes or less, guaranteed?
You can't even get a pizza delivered that fast these days.
Back in the early days of Gold when they were coming out of the woodwork, you'd have 5 responses in the first 10 minutes, and if you had to race through your typing to get the first reply.
180 seconds was pretty common for the first reply, though some short questions managed to get answered in less than a minute, forum time.

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I'm one of the few who can say he's been here in two millenia, and I hope to remain here forever in paradise.

[pathfinder]

If Posts are restricted here (other than obviously obscene/inflammatory ones) , I guess I'll simply take my leave.

[rextorres]

Is the SEIV forum broken? Last I looked it has the most Posts of any of the other games. If I worked at shrapnel I would ask "Why is the SEIV forum so successful while the others are not?" Instead of "What's wrong with the SEIV forum?"

My experience in working at software companies, though, is that people need to make changes to show there value. If Gandalph said "let's not change anything" then what's his value?

An easy thing to do would be to clamp down on OT topics. It doesn't take much creative thinking, has an immediate impact, and he can say he did something.

From a marketing stand point, though, it doesn't make a lot of sense to remove what keeps a lot of people coming back to the forum - especially when the game is at a lull.

While Gandalph et. al. is fiddling with the forums it seems to me they are ignoring real issues. Here's a question that has baffled me. Why doesn't Shrapnel invest more in improving and promoting the multi-player aspects of the game? I believe it doesn't take a genius to figure out that multi-player gaming is the future of gaming.

[Phoenix-D]

Originally posted by Mephisto:
*Moderator mode /on*
Please don't see this as a harsh rule and don't be afraid to create an OT topic if you have the urge to, just keep an eye out that the forum is not swarmed with OT so the newcomer won't find a SE4 topic.
*Moderator mode /off*

Have we ever done that? Really the concern should be cutting down on OT too much. Because a lot of the OT stuff takes more time than the SE4 stuff (debates, etc). That means posters hang around longer..which means they're here when the newbies ask questions. We don't have an average response time of sub 30 minutes for nothing.

[Katchoo]

Unless the Forum is reaching a peak in storage capacity, there's no real reason to cut back on OT Threads.

There's no flaming going on, which is rare rather than the norm among Forums dedicated to Gaming. In the 2 or so years I've been here, there are/were only two members who behaved improperly/ignorantly, and both were corrected (and quickly) by the Moderators. The fact that it doesn't happen much at all is refreshing.

As Rex and others have pointed out, it's up to the Space Empires community to keep this place hopping in the absence of any new content out of Aaron & Malfador. I think everyone can agree that once Space Empire V comes out, that the ratio of On-Topic Threads to Off-Topic Threads will swing dramatically back in favor of the On-Topics. Take a look at the Dominions II Forum; that place has predominantly On-Topic Threads because DII is still fresh. But if Illwinter Games doesn't release another Game or major Update for 2 or 3 Years, then that Forum will either wither down to the occasional Thread, or it'll follow the path of this Forum and thrive on the interest, ingenuity, and commitment of it's regulars to keep comming back in the absence of fresh Developer content.

I for one won't regularly return to a Forum unless there's a regular stream of new Posts appearing. There's nothing less attractive than going to a Forum and seeing one or two new Posts per week. That's why I rarely check out the Starfury or Dungeon Oddessy Forums. I'm certain I'm not the only one who reacts the same way.

The SEIV Community is one of the most mature Groups I've ever been a part of in my Online experince. If the majority of the Off-Topic Posts were crazy gibberish, then that would be one thing, but the majority are either thought provoking, such as the Iraqi War, Passion of Christ, and numerous Space related Posts; or they're polite opinion fetchers, like the various Favorite Books/Movies/TV Shows Posts; or they're open dialogs into the happenings of the daily lives, pratfalls, and happenings of the Community Members, like the death of a loved pet, the birth of a new baby, or the more personal quandries revealed by Rojero & Narf, to name a few. In any other Forum or Site, I would expect such Topics and revelations to be met with smart-*** & insensitive responses. But not here.

Hopefully nothing is going to happen, and GandalfParker's Posts are good natured ribbing. But if change is in the works, then Shrapnel better not cry or complain when the traffic to the Site & Forums dries up.

This place is special.

That's about the best way I can describe it.

[Arkcon]

Ok. I can relate to the dilemma Shrapnel Games is having. I used to browse the OS/2 Warp forums on an old forgotten Online service called Delphi. It was a good place to find small programs, and discussion. Back in the old days before the web went everywhere. The OS/2 Warp forum was very Microsoft critical, shocking as that may be. It was also highly political, every thread came down hard any just about any US g'ovt policy. It got to the point at which I really felt like any comment I made was going to be shot down by the regulars. Eventually, Delphi changed its policies, and closed the forum, and didn't leave the Moderators much choice for a new forum.

Long story short, I can relate to how off topic conversations can make newbies feel unwelcome. And that could have a negative impact on the usefulness of this forum.

But...

1). Our off topic conversations aren't like those on Delphi. It's not some clique spouting off some personal ideology and drop kicking anyone with a dissenting opinion. We're very diverse here. Not just different political ideas, but a wide range of countries, with their own cultural norms.

2). We don't have hard evidence that anyone feels locked out of our conversations, only a possible supposition. Some people here browse the computer games newsGroups. What I've seen posted (Admittedly, in the past, haven't checked lately) was that is someone had a question on SE4, they should come here, and the forums were friendly and useful. Not the other way around.

3). Horrifying though the concept may be, new players may come to these Boards, read the sticky topics, use the search function, and find all the answers they need, without registering and posting. It seems to many people, not just me, that SE4 seems to attract intelligent, level headed, proficient people. (Incredibly good looks is probably just a coincidence).

4).A further point. If the board is dedicated only to new players, and we have to make it newbie friendly by removing all OT discussions, how far does this have to go? Do newbies really care about new mods, the problems encounter when creating new mods, the latest shipsets, and the like. Perhaps not, are we going to lose those as well, and have the top page full of minelayer and drone discussions?

5). Now additionally, there was the recent OT discussion of the file "siae3123.exe", and I mentioned how it couldn't be found on any Google search. Now if you search Google, our Shrapnel Forum comes up on the first page. That's a little disconcerting, BBegemott is getting emails as an expert, and things like that. At first I was worried about our little group getting linked to the world. But then I realized, how many people have come here looking for that information, realized this forum is about a game, and taken an interest in SE4? More importantly, where's mine, BBegemott's, and pathfinder's share of the increased profits? Just a few percent off the top is plenty, I for one, am not greedy.