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  #1  
Old October 29th, 2000, 03:28 PM
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Comar Comar is offline
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Default Re: Depleted Uranium Cannons to powerful!

Right now , in a multi player game, we have an AI race using anti-matter torpodoes against two human houses and completely trashing us. If these aren't powerful enough, I don't want to see the strong ones.
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  #2  
Old October 29th, 2000, 03:31 PM
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Jubala Jubala is offline
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Default Re: Depleted Uranium Cannons to powerful!

Saben, Yes it's true that the MB is more efficient per kT basis than the DUC but keep in mind that the research investment for DUC V is very small compared to the research investment for MB VI. Instead of going for MB VI you could go for DUC V and use all that research not used to get MB VI to get High Energy Discharge Weapons or some other nasty wepon. So I still maintian my opinion that the DUC is too powerful considering it's low research cost.

[This message has been edited by Jubala (edited 29 October 2000).]
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  #3  
Old October 29th, 2000, 08:18 PM

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Default Re: Depleted Uranium Cannons to powerful!

Give me 24 hours to do a comprehensive analysis, and I will reply here with the results, either way. I will look at high energy, meson, anti-proton, and DUC weapons.
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  #4  
Old October 29th, 2000, 10:04 PM

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Default Re: Depleted Uranium Cannons to powerful!

How about the Phased-energy weapons? You can get them fairly easily while opponents are still using regular shields. They have a range of 6 at Phased Poleron Beam I and get stronger as you get closer for those of you that like close fighting. Ignoring regular shields makes these usefull against the AI that likes to get a lot of shield power. They do take some research but I like to get a lot of points in research so it goes fast for me. It only goes up to level 5 so its definately not a end game weapon.
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  #5  
Old October 30th, 2000, 07:18 AM

Saben Saben is offline
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Default Re: Depleted Uranium Cannons to powerful!

First off, let me say I found this exercise rewarding. Secondly, I did my best to make the numbers right, and double checked my results in a few random places when I was done. If you find a mathmatical error, post it so I can make corrections and see if it affects the conclusions.

(Edit: blah, I hate fonts. Table alignment is off. How I long for the good old days of fixed width. Men should be men, women should be women, and a character should be eight pixels wide. Universal truth, damnit.)

High-Energy Discharge Weapons
Requires:
Propulsion 7
Research Cost:
Required Feilds - 345,000
Level 01 - 20,000
Level 02 - 40,000
Level 03 - 90,000
Level 04 - 160,000 (505,000)
Level 05 - 250,000 - Incinerator appears
Level 06 - 360,000
Level 07 - 490,000 (835,000)
Level 08 - 640,000 - Wave Motion Gun appears
Level 09 - 810,000
Level 10 - 1,000,000
Total - 3,860,000 (4,205,000)
Weapon Data:
Ripper Beam IV:
20kt, 50 damage all ranges, range 3, rate 1.
damage/kt per round - 2.5
damage/kt per combat - 75
6,733.33 research cost per point for damage/kt per combat
Incinerator Beam III
50kt, 90 damage all ranges, range 6, rate 2.
damage/kt per round - 0.9
damage/kt per combat - 27
31,000 research cost per point for damage/kt per combat
Wave Motion Gun III
70 kt, 140 points all ranges, range 8, rate 3.
damage/kt per round - .667
damage/kt per combat - 20
210,250 research cost per point for damage/kt per combat


Energy Stream Weapons
Requires:
Physics 1
Research Cost:
Required Feilds - 50,000
Level 01 - 5,000
Level 02 - 10,000
Level 03 - 22,500
Level 04 - 40,000
Level 05 - 62,500
Level 06 - 90,000
Level 07 - 122,500
Level 08 - 160,000
Level 09 - 202,500
Level 10 - 250,000
Level 11 - 302,500
Level 12 - 360,000
Total - 1,627,500 (1,677,500)
Weapon Data:
Anti-Proton Beam XII:
30kt, 50 damage at 1 to 40 at range 5 to 35 at range 6 to 30 at 8, range 8, rate 1.
damage/kt per round at range 1 - 1.667
damage/kt per combat at range 1 - 50
33,550 research cost per point for damage/kt per combat at range 5
damage/kt per round at range 1 - 1.333
damage/kt per combat at range 1 - 40
41,937.5 research cost per point for damage/kt per combat at range 5
damage/kt per round at range 6 - 1.167
damage/kt per combat at range 6 - 35
47,928.571 research cost per point for damage/kt per combat at range 6
damage/kt per round at range 8 - 1.0
damage/kt per combat at range 8 - 30
55,916.667 research cost per point for damage/kt per combat at range 8

Energy Pulse Weapons
Requires:
Physics 1
Research Cost:
Required Feilds - 50,000
Level 1 - 10,000
Level 2 - 20,000
Level 3 - 45,000
Level 4 - 80,000
Level 5 - 125,000
Level 6 - 180,000
Total - 460,000 (510,000)
Weapon Data:
Meson BLaster VI:
20kt, 30 damage all ranges, range 6, rate 1.
damage/kt per round - 1.5
damage/kt per combat - 45
11,333.33 research cost per point for damage/kt per combat

Projectile Weapons
Requires:
None
Research Cost:
Required Feilds - None
Level 1 - Free
Level 2 - 5,000
Level 3 - 11,250
Level 4 - 20,000
Level 5 - 31,250
Total - 67,500
Weapon Data:
Depleted Uranium Cannon V:
30kt, 40 damage all ranges, range 5, rate 1.
damage/kt per round - 1.333
damage/kt per combat - 40
1,687.5 research cost per point for damage/kt per combat


Conclusions
-Depleted uranium cannons
--89% as effective damage-wise, and shoot 83% as far as meson bLasters, for 13.2% of the research.
-anti-proton beams
--In exchange for 33% more range, and 329% more research, you can do 67% of the damage per KT against a meson target
--If you are forced match range with the meson target, you can do 78% of the damage per KT for 329% more research.
--If you get to chose engagment range, you can do 11% more damage per kt to the meson ship, for 329% more research.
-Ripper Beams
--If you can close with the enemy, you can do 67% more damage for 99% of the research cost.
-Incinerator beans
--60% of the damage for 164% more research. Packs two turns worth of damage into first shot. Useless unless you can cripple or maim the enemy on the first round. And even then, frankly, you could have done nearly the same damage with the meson bLasters right up front. You do 20% more right away, but is it worth doing nothing at all the next round??
-Wave Motion Guns
--44% of the damage for 825% more research. Packs three turns worth of damage into the first shot. That means, instead of doing only 20% more right away like the incinerators, it does 32% more at two extra squares. And then you can't shoot for one turn. Hardly worth it.
--Compareing them to APB12 instead, which is also range 8. 66.7% of the damage for 251% more research. Getting better now, You'll deal three turns worth up front, doing twice the damage the APBs can do at the same range. This is looking like a more likely and worthwhile scenario. The ability to pack in two rounds of damage into the first shot could be decisive. Is it worth the trade off of being helpless for two turns?
-Final notes
--Welp, I learned from this. First off, I will always go down the DUC tree right off. The slight range problem is overwhelmingly offset by the tiny fraction of the cost. Looking at the ranges of some engine destroyers, I see that the best beam varient reaches as far as my loved meson bLasters. Getting to ripper beams will be slightly cheaper than meson, and I gain some nice engine tech along the route. Coupleing Ionic Dispersers to ripper beams is probably hands down the most efficient route I can take. Gives me the same "Range" of peging targets, and coupled with the natural engine superiority acheived for going that route, allows me practical dominion over the tactical battlefeild. I will be trying this next time I play against a human.


[This message has been edited by Saben (edited 30 October 2000).]
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  #6  
Old October 30th, 2000, 11:45 AM

Tomgs Tomgs is offline
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Default Re: Depleted Uranium Cannons to powerful!

Ok I did the calculations for the Phased energy weapons. They came out better than I had thought. They are the second best research to damage ratio to the DUC's and with its better range and special of ignoring normal shields they are a bit better for me. And as a bonus they are at range 6 at level 01 for a fast range advantage.

Phased Energy
Requires:
Physics level 02
Research costs:
Required fields - 150,000
Level 01 - 5000
Level 02 - 10000
Level 03 - 22500
Level 04 - 40000
Level 05 - 62500
Total 140,000 (290,000)

Phased Poloron Beam V - 30 KT Range 6 Rate 1
Damage at range 1 60, range 2-4 55, range 5-6 50
Damage/Kt at range 1 - 2.0
Damage/combat/Kt - 60
Research cost/damage/combat at range 1 - 4,833.3

Damage/kt at range 2-4 - 1.833
Damage/combat/Kt - 55
Research cost/damage/combat at range 2-4 - 5,272.8

Damage/Kt at Range 5-6 - 1.667
Damage/combat/kt - 50
Research cost/damage/combat at range5-6 - 5,800.1


[This message has been edited by Tomgs (edited 30 October 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Tomgs (edited 30 October 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Tomgs (edited 30 October 2000).]
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  #7  
Old October 31st, 2000, 02:42 AM

Saben Saben is offline
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Default Re: Depleted Uranium Cannons to powerful!

I love the numbers on those Polaron beams. As efficent at max range as the Anti-Proton is a point blank, with a close range efficency outpaceing everything else short of the ripper beam. And it ignores sheilds, forceing your enemy to persue the expensive level 6 plus sheild research. Not to mention how incredibly cheap it is to research, compared against the other offerings for post DUC weaponry.

I think I have a new favorite.
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