This Was Much Too Easy!

Kodos · #1 November 23rd, 2000, 01:13 PM

This was with the ver. 0.99 Demo.

Yr point about the AI giving in if yr nice to it sounds like what happened. My first act of agression was to blockade it's homeworld, all was peachy before that. Still, it had two other planets in the system, and another colony elsewhere --- it should not have given in to my demand so easily!

And yes, it was the "sector" when refering to a planet's area that led to some confusion (specifically with Supply Depots and Spaceports), not "system" --- my bad.

Darwin · #2 November 23rd, 2000, 07:18 PM

Well the important thing to remember here is.

1) Se3 had increadable AI. So we know that MM can do it.

2) I just fired up my copy of SE3. Version 1.17 and I looked through the history.txt for it. Lots of AI improvments throughout.

Lesson of the day is. Just keep playing Just keep downloading the patches. MM are good determined people. This game will get better as you do.

Tomgs · #3 November 24th, 2000, 03:47 AM

The AI is definately better in the full Version than in the demo and the changes in the patch give them better options for defence such as the fighter change and curing the unsheilded bug for units. Its quite a bit harder to win now than it was. Not impossible by any means but the AI is improving.

One thing I would really like to see is a bit more aggression on the part of the AI to attack me in my systems instead of waiting for me to go there and attack them. If I had to spend some of my resources on defence I would have less resources to press my attack. Especially when they declare war on me they should make a concerted effort to find worlds that I control and attack them at least on the higher difficulty levels.

Taqwus · #4 November 24th, 2000, 04:14 PM

One area where it definitely needs improvement is the "no warp point" start.

I played a game with that option, in a large galaxy, 3 planets ea, high race points, pretty much everything else default.

I took a LOT of time researching things like the other two colonization tech, before bothering to create warp points, and then went all the way to converting every atmosphere in my (by that time, ca. 10, all previously vacant) systems to nice, pleasant hydrogen, before ever constructing a war fleet.

And I'd waited to max out the ship techs (propulsion, organic weapons, tachyon sensors etc -- everything on them) before doing so. In the meantime, since I wasn't sure what to expect I'd been heavily mining and so forth. So by now a couple o' hundred turns had elapsed (I'm *not* kidding). To give you an example of the resources and pop I had -- and thus, sheer length of the game -- by the time the game was over I'd built three sphereworlds, concurrently, and I'd have needed at least six more to hold my population were I to move everybody on 'em.

I eventually created a fleet of 17 ships (1 warp creator/destroyer BB, 2 heavy carriers w/ 112 heavy fighters ea, 4 sweeper/sensor/repair BBs, 2 shipyard BBs, 2 bomber BBs, 6 beamer DNS. 1 warp creator/destroyer joined later to speed up the search.), which proceeded to tour the galaxy.

What I found was disappointing. Not one of the AIs had created a single warp point. At least one didn't even colonize every planet in its system -- it probably didn't have the tech. Most of their fleets -- the ones that didn't heed my suggestion to surrender immediately, and that I didn't bother using PPP on -- used DU cannons I, and perhaps CSM II, despite the insanely long time they had to research, undisturbed.

So perhaps they got stuck in some state where they didn't have enough colonies to jump to the next, or where it was assumed there'd be warp points already and the alternative (needing to research Stellar Manipulation and *making* warp points and planets) wasn't considered.

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-- The thing that goes bump in the night

Talenn · #5 November 24th, 2000, 07:18 PM

Tomgs:

Yes, definately AI agressiveness could use a boost IMO too. Too often I am allowed to build up unmolested and then simply translate my huge econ and tech advantage into an unstoppable fleet.

And, like you mentioned, even when at war, I always dictate the pace. I rarely have to go back and defend my backfield from AI attacks.

Taqwus:

That would probably require some SERIOUS AI tweaking. The little bits I've messed with the AI have shown that it has a pretty strict order for how to build colonies and if it doesnt have enough planets to use, some important things might never get built. I'm sure you could go through and develop a custom AI for your settings (one that researches colony techs and whatnot earlier) but it would be useless in a 'regular' game. I think the AI is optimized for a few game conditions and cant be reasonably asked to perform well in the less standard ones.

It would be an interesting exercise to develop an AI for your settings, though. But even at that, dont expect it to keep up with an experienced player unless you give it a pretty healthy 'Computer Player Bonus' on a map like that.

Talenn

Kodos · #6 November 25th, 2000, 09:54 AM

I've only been playing the Demo so far (tho I have ordered the full game!), but it does seem like the AI is much too passive. My initial example may be the extreme, but I have yet to see the AI pull a "Pearl Harbor" --- or, for that matter, even try to strong-arm me when it would be to it's advantage to keep me in check. Even the so-called "war-like" races aren't very blood thirsty.

Comar · #7 November 25th, 2000, 05:09 PM

In one of the beta players multi player games, we had one AI race pound two of the human players to dust. At the same time. The only thing that saved us was the game ending. The AI can be brutal, particularily in the higher settings. MM is still tweaking it, so I'm sure you will get your wish. Of course, you may wish you didn't.....