New ShipDesign Mod

[Mephisto]

Hi Talenn,
thanks for the feedback.

1.) I thought the research list was only a list telling the AI WHAT to research, not in which order. But obviously the file also tells the AI in which order the research should be done. I have returned to the default research files.

2.) You might be right about the colony ships. My problem is to tell in which mode the AI cruenntly is in. There does not seem to be a colonization mode, the exploration mode is - as it seems - seldom used by the AI. In the end I have returned to the default AI files.

3.) I have concentrated on modifying the ship files and I think they work fine. But there remains the problem of some research areas the AI will not touch. As the patch seems to be quite close I will not modify anything but the ship files for the near future.

[Talenn]

[K126]Mephisto:

Sure, I'm happy to give feedback. I think the best way for us to improve the game is to experiment and compare notes.

I've had moderate success with tweaking the AI files. A good learning tool is to start a game and then set all the Ministers to 'On' and let it run your empire while you watch what it does. That's how I caught the 'perpetual scrapping' of the ships.

I have inserted additional ship types into its build order and have seen them be used. It doesnt always 'Fleet up' its ships so the concept of a combined arms fleet goes out the window, but at least it will vary its ship types which, in turn, makes it less predictable. For example, the stock Terrans are missile-happy. Once you play them a bit, you realize that all you need are handful of PD ships and they are powerless.

My 'modified Terrans' have 3 different primary combatants, one that is Missile heavy, one that is Gun heavy and one more balanced but with additional PD weapons. This has made them far more difficult for players to overcome. The PLAYER must react and build multiple ship types. Its made the AI SEEM more alive and reactive. If the same were to be done with all the races (but its VERY time consuming), I think the AI would come off far better in combat than it does now.

I've also experimented with having the AI build some smaller classes of ships even late in the game as 'escorts' for the main fleet. It does fairly well with this too and the addition of the small hulls in the fleet help to defer the operating cost in maintenance. I've had the most success by having it research and build my new 'fast' Versions of the DD and CL hulls.

As far as research goes...there is quite a bit that can be tweaked safely in there as well. In some of the files, I've seen 'Physics' be researched and then none of the new tech areas it allows be researched until FAR down the queue. So, I've moved Physics down a bit to unclog its research early in the game. So far, no problems with it. There are a number of other tweaks I've made in that regard as well.

There is a lot that I think we can do, but its just going to take a while to sort out what works and what doesnt. But I'm slowly but surely learning the ins and outs of what we can manipulate in this game.

Talenn

[Tampa_Gamer]

Talenn - your hi-tech small hulls sound like a good way to get the AI to use smaller ships longer - you should post your files.

Mephisto - 3 Versions in less than 2 days!! I can't keep up with the downloads! j/k

I am glad to see other people trying hard with the AI as well.

Unfortunately, I keep trying to find time to post a new Version of my mod - but I am in the middle of an 75+ hour work week and I am supposed to attend my wife's family reunion in Disney this weekend. . .I guess the bright side is that when I emerge from this hiatus, perhaps the new patch will be out!

[This message has been edited by Tampa_Gamer (edited 07 December 2000).]

[Talenn]

Tampa_Gamer:

Actually, my set is VERY interdependant. I have tweaked costs and ranges and whatnot for a LOT of items. This caused me to go in to the AI files and tweak them so that it could respond to my changes. It works, but it is pretty much a package deal. Many items only seem to make sense when taken as a whole.

I've tweaked the weapons so that there is more trade-off. Some weapons are now more or less accurate than others. Armor and Shields both have a point and one does not obsolete the other. Propulsion research allows more efficient engines in terms of cost and range. Construction of Facilities require more Organics and Radioactives than before. Many other things have been tweaked as well and I wasnt as careful as you about documenting all my changes...I just sort of went in and did 'em as I saw the need.

So, I think for anyone to really use my changes, they would almost have to want to play with my entire Data Set including AI adjustments and whatnot. I just figured that that might be too radical of a change for most people at this point, but I would consider compiling it all up if folks wanted to see it.

Talenn

[Mephisto]

I followed 2 ideas while modifing the AI:

1.) Only touch one thing a time so you can watch the result.

2.) Don't touch the game balance as malfador and the betas have spent a lot of time finding the current one.

I wish I was a beta tester or had entry to that forum. It is a bit disappointing to do all the changes only to be offset by the next patch. I would like to help Aaron with the design files but I doubt he will give such a important part of the game out of his hands. For this matter, we 3 could form a outdorr Ai creation team

[Jubala]

Talenn, I would like to see your files. They sound interesting to say the least.

[Tampa_Gamer]

Talenn - I think seeing your compilied set will still be helpful. I also like the ideal about advanced propulsion also affording greater fuel efficiency.

Mephisto - Agreed, but I am backing-off of total AI mods for all races at this point until the next patch (also b/c as I indicated below, I am at work right now for all my waking hours!). I have a feeling the next patch will focus on AI a bit with all the attention it has gotten on the Boards. However, what I am doing is concentrating on making the AI changes to one race (a custom one) that can be added to the game whenever you play it. This makes it easier (1) to test, (2) for others to add it to their existing data set without losing all their mods, (3) to compare it to the default races (I keep full view scoring on so I can monitor how the races do over many games), and (4) to work into any later patches that come out. I am currently still tweaking my "Darlock" type race.

I suppose what I am proposing is that we each concentrate on making a custom AI race (you can modify an existing one if you want and rename it to something else). But instead of concentrating on the ship sets (like others), we tweak the AI data files. Then we can trade them and compare how they do against both the default AI races and each of our "custom races." Of course, this ideal will not work with a heavily modified component/facility file, but at least it could provide some baseline comparisons - Any thoughts?

[This message has been edited by Tampa_Gamer (edited 07 December 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Tampa_Gamer (edited 07 December 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Tampa_Gamer (edited 07 December 2000).]