Richard, very classy!

[Instar]

Um, seeing that I am a beta tester, I have to (and I do) read the fix lists.

"so the opinion may change after that time, and I will gladly share mine again."
And I bet they will be so overjoyed to hear it.

[Richard]

*sigh*

Johnathan I never said a word about banning you. I did mention that I thought folks should lighten up and keep the discussion civil. Again I never even mentioned anything about giving you any sort of personal penalty. As far as my timing I didn't really look at this thread until I recieved an email complaint about the tone from one of the forum readers. Once I recieved that I investigated. As far as the BTS forum I read it every day, I ama big Combat Mission fan.

My point is that the game is not "imcomplete". The game could use some work in several areas, the AI being the most noticable. However (as I said earlier) I will take our game and rate it with any other Space based 4X game at time of release made in the Last 5 years.

In any case the point still stands, I have no issue with dissent here, but at the same time I will pop in to give my POV on the matter. Just keep it civil.

------------------
Sarge is coming...

Richard Arnesen
Director of Covert Ops
Shrapnel Games
http://www.shrapnelgames.com

[Freyland]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard:
*sigh*

Johnathan I never said a word about banning you.

---

Richard, I would have emailed this to you rather than waste forum space, but you do not provide your address in your profile. From the "Up to date beta info" thread...

------
Freyland...
I have no problem with you complaining, unlike some other Boards that won't get you Banned. HOwever calling people a "fool" and such can.
------------------

Jar any memories?

Instar, I am glad you are so informed, since you obviously weren't when you posted towards me the first time (about claiming I said the game was unstable, in case your memory is as poor as Richard's). Believe it or not, but I do not enjoy this "baiting" anymore than you. So, if you will keep your Posts realistic instead of exaggerating mine, we'll have one less thing to "keep civil" about, as Richard requests.
My point in the first place is that the game was released incomplete. I made a big deal about this, and everybody calls me a troll. Do you truly expect me to play nice when people act like that? Accept it! The game was released prematurely, whether because the "fanbase" decided, as some posters suggested, or because Shrapnel wanted to get it out before the Holiday (read: money) while there were no other good 4X games out there. I don't claim to know why, I simply stand by the clear fact the game was released incomplete. I mean, look at all the Posts! Look at the list of "fixes"! If you keep badgering me that I am wrong, I will keep proving to you that I am right. The sad part is we just go around and around.

I have said my piece (again), and would like to be done with it. If you wish to argue it, or choose to insult me, we can do it again. I will always have the "Fixed" list to quote. What will you have? Think about it.

Jonathan

[AJC]

MM made it quite clear when the game was released that patches would be released after the fact - Anyone who was reading the forums knows that The pressure to get SE4 out was immense. Now it is getting the best most intense test it could ever get - the entire SE4 fan community. Hopefully decent input will come out of it instead of game and people bashing....
I think patience is the better part of valor here..with decent input from the dedicated fans - the game can only get better and better.

[WendellM]

IMHO, there's a fine line between constructive and destructive criticism. Freyland seems to me to be right at that line, so while I don't really have a problem with his comments (though they did get a bit personal at one point), I can see how some would consider them over the line and thus feel protective of a game they like.
However, if you want to see what real flaming against a game company is like, check out the unfortunate scene on Taldren's SFC II forum! You'll find a whole lot of hotheads spewing hatred that makes Jonathan's Posts look like love letters. So, I'd suggest giving a little bit of extra latitude when deciding whether a post is a flame or just honest criticism - based on the SFC II Posts, if it's a flame you'll have no doubt!

Anyway, here's hoping that the tone on the SE IV board remains civil as it has been in the past, with all participants trying to improve this game that has such promise.

Regards to all,

Wendell

[Freyland]

Amen

[ender]

To put this in perspective, SE IV in its current state is as complete or stable as any other 4x title post patch barring the AI.

I will agree that the AI scripts need a major rework. As they don't seem to be having significant impact on AI play personality currently, and because of that MOO2 still rates slightly higher on the "all time" hit scale. However if the next patch comes out with a revamp that makes the behavior of each of the AI player distinct, MM could very well leave the remaining "to do" list in limbo and still topple MOO2 as the reigning champ.

After all every 4x game released (even Civ2) was finished with a few remaining tweaks that could and should have been looked at. So far Civ has been the most polished in a postproduction polish value, but the very complex nature of these games makes bug hunting almost a lifetime career. Even SMAC's initial release suffered similar problems even after a much longer testing gyration!

I think the 'to do' list is a credit to the folks at MM for aggressively tackling and wanting to improve their product. The Last patch for MOO2 still had a like size list unattended (and it's considered the best by most strategy buffs)!

Freyland, think of it this way. For an Indy publisher release on a semi shoestring budget title, SE IV's release is putting some of the bigger publishing houses efforts to shame (both in design and the polish fronts). For such a complex title and such limited resources SE IV is a remarkable product and effort! You can sometimes forget shrapnel isn't an interplay or microprose outfit, but when you put it in context. I say bravo!

And thanks Richard for your visibility here...I know you take some fire here but your sacrifice on the front lines doesn't go unnoticed by those of us who know how treacherous the road you, shrapnel, and it’s benefactors endure with your efforts of blazing into a niche buisness plan that equates to some interesting and largely unexplorered business frontiers.