What did I missed from Dom I.? -> DIPLOMACY!

MythicalMino · #1 September 20th, 2003, 03:38 PM

I too thought that there should be diplomacy (alliance making), but then I got to thinking...with every nation being led by a Pretender to Godhood, and only one can become God, then that does make it a holy war....there is no room for alliances....

Really if you think about it, it does make sense....I wouldn't make an alliance with someone I KNEW wanted me dead....sure, the "alliance of common enemies" may be valid, but still....when that person wants me dead, no matter what...and then throw in the affects of religion....it makes sense that there is only total war....

The mixing of religion with alliances shouldn't work...and in multiplayer, you can make your alliances...just nothing formal...

PDF · #2 September 20th, 2003, 03:47 PM

Cpbeller,
I disagree with you : even if on "Holy" war and with only 1 "god" to be left, you can prefer ally with some to fight others, in order to be able to defeat thereafter your former ally ! ;evilgrin:
No, the absence of a diplomatic model in Dominions is just a "we got no resources for that" effect - and it's only lacking in SP.
But I only play SP for the moment, so I miss it !

Pocus · #3 September 20th, 2003, 05:47 PM

not quite PDF... the problem of having no diplomacy rules in MP is that you cant move thru your allies territories. This can be circumvented with various means, but still it is a bit a pain in the rea...

realm

lack of diplomacy is partly a problem of IW resources, and partly a design decision from the authors. I dont think we will ever get something on this topic

Mortifer · #4 September 21st, 2003, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cpbeller:
I too thought that there should be diplomacy (alliance making), but then I got to thinking...with every nation being led by a Pretender to Godhood, and only one can become God, then that does make it a holy war....there is no room for alliances....

Really if you think about it, it does make sense....I wouldn't make an alliance with someone I KNEW wanted me dead....sure, the "alliance of common enemies" may be valid, but still....when that person wants me dead, no matter what...and then throw in the affects of religion....it makes sense that there is only total war....

The mixing of religion with alliances shouldn't work...and in multiplayer, you can make your alliances...just nothing formal...

I do not agree. In civ3 for example, you are trying to get AI allies to accomplish your goals. [Either conquer all of them, or diplo victory.]
Here you should be able to make alliances, also the AI should be able to make AI-AI alliances, that would make the game lot more interesting.

QuarianRex · #5 September 21st, 2003, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mortifer:
I do not agree. In civ3 for example, you are trying to get AI allies to accomplish your goals. [Either conquer all of them, or diplo victory.]
Here you should be able to make alliances, also the AI should be able to make AI-AI alliances, that would make the game lot more interesting.

Yes but in civ3 you have the chioce of conquering or diplomacy. In Dominions you don't, and in fact you shouldn't. Diplomacy in Dom is hobbled by the addition of dominion. If you can make treaties with other pretenders then they can potentially spread their divine influence through your lands without you being able to do anything (and vice-versa). This can weaken your troops morale, weaken both your prophet and pretender, and generally make you easier to slaughter. It's even worse when your neighbor has an incompatible dominion (abysia and caelum, ermor amd anyone...) and can turn a supposedly benign peace treaty into an offensive weapon.

If you are in a race for godhood you are not willing to risk subVersion of you divinity. For any reason. Ergo, no diplomacy.

PDF · #6 September 21st, 2003, 08:22 PM

I think that a minimal dose of diplomacy would be nice, all those reasons some of you invent against "any" diplomacy aren't that convincing..
What for example would do a sensible god

against Ermorian threat ? Ally with some other to deal with it...
If this in turn cause new problems, he can always change side and declare war on his former ally !

MythicalMino · #7 September 21st, 2003, 09:36 PM

but we are talking about a game of world-wide holy war....if every nation in the world (real-life world) was so invested in a particular religion (ex, every nation in the world an opposing nature of Muslim and Jewish), you would not see them joining forces in any way....both religions are so excluding of other religions (like the religions of Dominions), that they don't allow (true and trustful) alliances with one another.

Even within their own religious nations, there is constant war....the Shiites vs. the Sunni, Turkey (I believe) vs. the Kurds....in the Old Testament of the Bible, the two Kingdoms of Jews vs. each other....

That is why I can believe in the Dominions world with no true Diplomacy....

Now, I understand you will not agree with me....but this is what my thoughts on it are....i love diplomacy (working models in a games vs. the AI), but in Dominions, it just makes sense to me that there is none...