What did I missed from Dom I.? -> DIPLOMACY!

[licker]

Woah Nellie!

Why would people not play MP? Yeesh there are a bazillion reasons why, some people simply cannot play MP (no internet maybe? no friends interested for LAN or hot seat?) Some people don't have the time, or don't want to spend the time (time over a period of weeks or months) to play MP.

Look the MP experience (usually) is going to be superior to the SP experience for reasons beyond the ability to have some form of diplomacy, but that doesn't mean that every wants to, or indeed is able to, engage in MP.

I for one play almost entirely SP. I will try the odd PBEM, but that's about it, I don't have flexible enough time to be able to set aside 5+ hours for a LAN or internet match, so its really not much of a choice for me.

Anyway, some diplo rules or settings would be nice, but I don't think the system has to become overly complicated. Simple things like trades (GalCiv and Civ3 do this pretty well) and NAPs could work well. NAPs would have to have the penalty that if you break one no one else will NAP you for a fixed time, if you break a second one, make that time longer, if you break a thrid... no one will ever NAP or trade with you. Simple things are best, non of this sharing provinces, granting rights of passage, esentially anything that would require the existing code to be modified to incorperate new rules.

[Kristoffer O]

I think the major problem with diplo AI is that I don't know anything about AI coding and JK is bored by it (he made the AI so he should know). This doesn't mean that there will never be any diplomacy, but it means that if it will be made it will be so out of a sudden whim.

An outstanding AI might also see the day of light if one of you guys suddenly comes up with a simple yet brilliant system for a diplomatic AI that is unabusable.

Meanwhile you will have to wait and hope.

[st.patrik]

Originally posted by HJ:
I would be seriously surprised and even slightly offended if you consider my Posts as the ones not in line with desire for honest dialogue. I assure you that there is no malice intended or involved behind any of them, not directed to you, and not to anyone else either, regardless of whether they are in this thread or other threads. But let's not talk abut that any more, and let's not do finger pointing; feel free to pm me if you think I personally was out of line.

I didn't mean that you in particular were not interested in honest dialogue - in fact reading over your Posts I notice that you have not made the kind of comments I was reacting against. So I apologise if I communicated otherwise, and thank you for your thoughtful response.

[Mortifer]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
I think the major problem with diplo AI is that I don't know anything about AI coding and JK is bored by it (he made the AI so he should know). This doesn't mean that there will never be any diplomacy, but it means that if it will be made it will be so out of a sudden whim.

An outstanding AI might also see the day of light if one of you guys suddenly comes up with a simple yet brilliant system for a diplomatic AI that is unabusable.

Meanwhile you will have to wait and hope.

I have some ideas, I will post about it.
Gotta run, no time now.
I am happy that you lads @ Illwinter are paying enough attention, and listening to our ideas and suggestions!
I will be back tomorrow, I will post my detailed ideas than.

[DominionsFan]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
I think the major problem with diplo AI is that I don't know anything about AI coding and JK is bored by it (he made the AI so he should know).

bored? LOL?

[Taqwus]

*shrug*

I normally don't play multi since I'm not inclined to take games that seriously, and thus veer strongly towards the silly side rather than being a serious, competitive player. I'm more of a "ooh, let's try this and see what happens" chap rather than one who'll carefully plan ahead, figuring out a focused strategy e.g. what to research, when to start summoning seasonal spirits, et al.

But for those that do play MP, beefing up the in-game messaging capabilities wouldn't be a bad idea. *shrug* And yes, it could be done out of the game, but not as conveniently. Eh.

[Aristoteles]

Ok here is my idea:

We need a relationship bar. That way we will be able to see the relations with the other nations. Also there should be a a huge table with all relations. IE. between AI A and AI F, or between AI B and AI G, etc.

Basic options should be:

Send gold
Send magic gems
Transfer / Give unit(s)
Transfer / Give province(s)

Basic hostile options

Demand gold
Demand magic gems
Demand provinces

Diplomatic options

Right of Passage / Passage Agreement
Trade Embargo
Non Agression Pact
Alliance (against)
Total Alliance

All actions will raise / lower the relationship between the nations. Basic Options will raise the relationship, any hostile actions & basic hostile options will lower it.

Hostile actions what will lower the relationship:

-Sending spies

-Attacking a nation whose relations with the 'target' is good. [No alliance or any diplo relations between them, just good relationship!]IE. You want good relations with AI A. The relations between AI A and AI B is very good. You are attacking AI B.
Your relations with AI A will be decreased, greatly.

-Casting any hostile spells. This should work like the above one, IE. You want good relations with AI A. The relations between AI A and AI B is very good. You are casting some hostile spells against AI B.
Your relations with AI A will be decreased.

-Attacking a nation should lower the relations to -100. Also lets say that you attacked AI A.
There was an alliance between AI A, AI B and AI C.
Your relations should be -100 with AI A, AI B and AI C after the attack.

The relationship bar is quite simple, the max is 100, the min is -100. 100 is the best, -100 is the worst.

Now about the abuse. If you are sending lot of gold/giving away units etc, will increase your relations for sure. If you call that abusing, than we wont have a good diplo AI in any games EVER
Just think what happened in history. The various empires always used this way to improve their relations with other Kingdoms/Empires. This is supposed to work like this.

[ October 17, 2003, 13:21: Message edited by: Aristoteles ]