Player controlled battles???

[Taqwus]

The time to win battles is, not infrequently, before they start. This is particularly true given the variety in Dominions, where many tactics can't be countered with mere battlefield manuevering but need decent preparation beforehand.

In any event, human-controlled tactical battles don't mix very well with PBEM, even if you limit control to pretenders. It would also alter balance; there's quite a bit of magic that would be considerably more powerful if the user had fully controlled target selection.

[Zerger]

Dominions is a very simple game. Nothing special in it. As I said it is average. Sure I like to play with it, that is not a question.
600 units? Guys don't be clowns. You know that most of the units are useless. You won't use more than 90% of those units. IW put in 1000 to Doms II. It is a great addition? To me: NO
I guess the IW scripter didn't wanted to add more complex things, like diplomacy. Instead they added 400 units. Yes it is lot more easier, that is for sure.
Spells? Heh yeah we have lot of spells. The problem is that you won't use the majority of these spells. Just like the units.
When you know what to do, you won't. Simple as you know what.
So what we have more other than a huge amount of useless units/spells? Basically nothing. That is the truth.
That is why I am pissed about Doms II. There won't be major gameplay additions. Too bad. New units, new spells....what a joke. Instead of 500 useless units, now we will have like 850.

[ October 26, 2003, 20:31: Message edited by: Zerger ]

[HJ]

Originally posted by Taqwus:

In any event, human-controlled tactical battles don't mix very well with PBEM, even if you limit control to pretenders.

But they do mix well with SP.

It would also alter balance; there's quite a bit of magic that would be considerably more powerful if the user had fully controlled target selection.

Erm, that's a good thing in my book.

[WraithLord]

zerger:

So what we have more other than a huge amount of useless units/spells? Basically nothing.

For what it's worth I have to say that I strongly disagree with that.
I have only DOM-I to base my opinion on.
I think most of the units/spells have their usage.
DOM-I is full with creativity that is expressed in the units, spells, nations.
The game has a unique atmosphere.
I believe that DOM-II would only enhance that.

[Kristoffer O]

Originally posted by Zerger:
Dominions is a very simple game. Nothing special in it. As I said it is average. Sure I like to play with it, that is not a question.
600 units? Guys don't be clowns. You know that most of the units are useless. You won't use more than 90% of those units. IW put in 1000 to Doms II. It is a great addition? To me: NO
I guess the IW scripter didn't wanted to add more complex things, like diplomacy. Instead they added 400 units. Yes it is lot more easier, that is for sure.
Spells? Heh yeah we have lot of spells. The problem is that you won't use the majority of these spells. Just like the units.
When you know what to do, you won't. Simple as you know what.
So what we have more other than a huge amount of useless units/spells? Basically nothing. That is the truth.
That is why I am pissed about Doms II. There won't be major gameplay additions. Too bad. New units, new spells....what a joke. Instead of 500 useless units, now we will have like 850.

In a single game I do not use more than 10% of the units in the game, but if I would like to play the game more than once and with a different nation I would probably use a lot more.

If you are a newbie you might play several games with the same nation before you figure out all benefits and drawbacks of the unit setup of that particular nation. True, some units are less useful than others, but I believe most units have some uses and you might encounter some as independents where this does not matter. I would say that less useful units add to gameplay or the feel of the game. Historically Romans did not use horses to any great extent and their cavalry was inferior to that of Carthage or Numidia, but still there was equestrians in the roman army. The relative strengths of Hastatii or Triarii is and was difficult to measure. Probably one of the two was stronger, but this didnt matter much. The triarii were used as rear guard a long time after the reformation of legionary army.

The uselessness is a matter of strength vs cost. In SP games where competition is less pronounced you might find a unit that you believe is better than other units and therefore avoid other units. On the other hand you can indulge yourself in making units for fun rather than because they are the most cost effective units in the game. In MP games most people try to make the most cost effective units in a given situation. Here you must adopt to your enemies tactics to avoid defeat. What first seemed a good units combination might be worthless because your opponent has come up with something.

Of course it is easier to make new units. It is also fun . As an old pen and paper RPG game master I gladly indulge myself in imagining things. Some of these things end up in Dominions. Other ideas are used in roleplaying, yet other ideas I use on my unwary students.

Some spells are rarely useful, but they do not take much coding to add. I can assure you that the amounts of time spent on adding spells is quite limited.

I really do not understand how you can be pissed at something you havn't tried. I have never eaten corned beef, but I couldn't say that I'm pissed at it . BTW is this language offensive to americans? If so I'm sorry and hope that Zerger also will moderate his tongue.

The most important change I would say is the UI, but perhaps you do not consider this important.

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by Zerger:
Dominions is a very simple game. Nothing special in it. As I said it is average. Sure I like to play with it, that is not a question.
600 units? Guys don't be clowns. You know that most of the units are useless. You won't use more than 90% of those units. IW put in 1000 to Doms II. It is a great addition? To me: NO
I guess the IW scripter didn't wanted to add more complex things, like diplomacy. Instead they added 400 units. Yes it is lot more easier, that is for sure.
Spells? Heh yeah we have lot of spells. The problem is that you won't use the majority of these spells. Just like the units.
When you know what to do, you won't. Simple as you know what.
So what we have more other than a huge amount of useless units/spells? Basically nothing. That is the truth.
That is why I am pissed about Doms II. There won't be major gameplay additions. Too bad. New units, new spells....what a joke. Instead of 500 useless units, now we will have like 850.

I frankly have no idea why you are pissed. No one is trying to trick you into doing anything. You have no stake in the development of dom 2. You have not paid anything for dom 2. So why are you pissed? Exactly what about a small group of people designing and making a game they themselves enjoy, implementing features they like and selling it to other people that share their tastes, is it that pisses you off? Is it somehow offensive to you that illwinter make their own game the way they want it, and in their own freetime work on changes they enjoy doing?

[ October 27, 2003, 02:40: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

[PvK]

I think Zerger is trolling, exaggerating and/or just doesn't appreciate many of the interesting things about Doms. At least, his negative comments are simply incorrect and inflamatory.

It would be nice to eventually see some diplomacy and other suggestions. For instance, I like the idea of allowing modders to invent damage types, so they could do their own wep/armor effects without bothering those who don't like it. And, I would enjoy the option of being able to control one commander per battle in single-player mode. Eventually, if you guys feel like it.

Moreover, it sounds to me like Doms II does add several nice features besides more spells and units. A nicer interface, improved AI, more victory condition types, game system refinements, etc.

PvK