Noob questions!

Nagot Gick Fel · #1 October 8th, 2003, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by licker:
As to the arena thing...

Perhaps a penalty should be assesed to nations that don't enter the arena, futher penalties could be assesed depending on how well your champions does.

Err, if that idea was ever implemented, I think in MP most arena events would feature mostly scouts.

DominionsFan · #2 October 8th, 2003, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mortifer:

quote:
Originally posted by PDF:
I agree with both Johann - the Arena concept is fun - and Pocus - it's an open door for abusing AIs ...
May I suggest some tweaks that I think will make the "game" fairer and more interesting ?

1/ NO items in the Arena, the combattants enter naked, all their stuff go to the Lab
2/ At the end of the fights, all survivors are fully healed/cured/restored/curses removed, they come back as new, only the dead remain dead !
3/ Prizes should be various powerful unique artifacts, or a big pack of gems, not always the same half-potent but cursed weapon

I think that those rules would kill most of the arena cheese, the players would either have to pass on an opportunity to kill enemies and gain something worthwhile, or send themselves powerful leaders (as the AI does and as the devs intended to design Arena combat).
I concur that the Dom1 Arena prize isn't that good, it's nice with a supercombatant pretender or a big fighter type leader if you get it very early, but even so ends later as a drawback as you can't get rid of it when you can forge better stuff ...

Hell yeah! Very good ideas! I agree with this totally. This would stop the AI abusing.

I agree. This is the best idea so far.

Saber Cherry · #3 October 8th, 2003, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DominionsFAN:

quote:
Originally posted by Mortifer:

quote:
Originally posted by PDF:

1/ NO items in the Arena, the combattants enter naked, all their stuff go to the Lab
2/ At the end of the fights, all survivors are fully healed/cured/restored/curses removed, they come back as new, only the dead remain dead !
3/ Prizes should be various powerful unique artifacts, or a big pack of gems, not always the same half-potent but cursed weapon

Hell yeah! Very good ideas! I agree with this totally. This would stop the AI abusing.
I agree. This is the best idea so far.

...I like 3, but I really dislike 1 and 2. A qualifying round would stop AI abuse without negatively altering the nature of arena combat. The way I see it, removing the ability to equip competitors means that a God, Jotun, or astral mage will always win. And removing afflictions afterward... seems unrealistic, and makes it a zero-risk proposition for the strongest entrant.

licker · #4 October 8th, 2003, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

quote:
Originally posted by licker:
As to the arena thing...

Perhaps a penalty should be assesed to nations that don't enter the arena, futher penalties could be assesed depending on how well your champions does.

Err, if that idea was ever implemented, I think in MP most arena events would feature mostly scouts.

Maybe, but then if your scout gets knocked out early you still suffer some penalty to your nation. The trick is to make the risk/reward/punishment scale meaningful without overbalancing it. Others I'm sure have more experience and better ideas than I do, but I think the premise is sound.

Send no one, really bad things happen.
Send a wuss who gets knocked out fast, bad things happen.
Send someone who does mediocre... neutral.
Send someone who makes the finals (semis whatever) small good things happen.
Send someone who becomes the champion... better things happen.

Furthermore, make a penalty to a nation who has the champion when he loses. That way if you want to you can send a tougher dude than the champion to give that nation a headache, then the next time another nation will send a stronger competator... eventually the cycle could wind up with fairly decent if not out right strong champions being taken on by buffed opponents to knock out that champion.

Its all in how the payoff is set up...

Mortifer · #5 October 9th, 2003, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:

quote:
Originally posted by DominionsFAN:

quote:
Originally posted by Mortifer:

quote:
Originally posted by PDF:

1/ NO items in the Arena, the combattants enter naked, all their stuff go to the Lab
2/ At the end of the fights, all survivors are fully healed/cured/restored/curses removed, they come back as new, only the dead remain dead !
3/ Prizes should be various powerful unique artifacts, or a big pack of gems, not always the same half-potent but cursed weapon

Hell yeah! Very good ideas! I agree with this totally. This would stop the AI abusing.
I agree. This is the best idea so far.
...I like 3, but I really dislike 1 and 2. A qualifying round would stop AI abuse without negatively altering the nature of arena combat. The way I see it, removing the ability to equip competitors means that a God, Jotun, or astral mage will always win. And removing afflictions afterward... seems unrealistic, and makes it a zero-risk proposition for the strongest entrant.

I think the ONLY way to balance the Arena fights and stop the AI abusing if items wont be allowed in the arena matches.
If the items are allowed you can abuse the AI easily, IE send in a crap commander to curse the pretender etc. etc. etc.

Do you have any other idea, that how to stop AI abusing?

OR there is another solution: Do not allowed specific item types only, like cursing items etc. Maybe that should do it as well.

[ October 09, 2003, 09:09: Message edited by: Mortifer ]

Nagot Gick Fel · #6 October 9th, 2003, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by licker:
Its all in how the payoff is set up...

I don't really like any of your suggestions. For me Dominions is primarily a multiplayer wargame, the arena contest is fun but I can ignore it if I want, and I want it to remain so.

MStavros · #7 October 10th, 2003, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

quote:
Originally posted by licker:
Its all in how the payoff is set up...

I don't really like any of your suggestions. For me Dominions is primarily a multiplayer wargame, the arena contest is fun but I can ignore it if I want, and I want it to remain so.

For you. I prefer singleplayer & modding, over multiplayer.

Lot of players are preferring the singleplayer part & modding, so the arena fight must be fixed. The biggest problem is the AI abusing.

I think removing the items in arena fights is a good idea, but as Mortifer said, maybe if some items won't be allowed, that should do it too.
Just do not allow 'AI abuse' items. You know what items I meant, I am sure.