Dom I Strategies which WON'T work in Dom II

Mortifer · #1 October 15th, 2003, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:

quote:
Originally posted by Pocus:

quote:
Originally posted by johan osterman:

quote:
Originally posted by apoger:
8> Army BLasting - Stuff like Murdering Winter. Might be more popular than ever now that it's harder to project power.

8,9,10: Are more or less the same.
The great equalizers and I never liked them. Too easy to level a stronger opponent with them. Beside that the most often used by far, Murdering winter, does cold damages, so some nations (guess what, Caelum is in the list too!) are immune to it.
Well... I hope the mod tools are powerful enough to change this. But I'd prefer if it was changed in the vanilla game. Especially 8 and 9... making the effect proportional to dominion strength might be useful... so that you could still target any province, but you couldn't annihilate the enemy's capitol easily and cheaply. Something like... +10 your dominion gives a full-strength spell, +10 enemy dominion gives a zero-strength spell, and anywhere in between gives a linearly interpolated strength.

-Cherry

I second this.

apoger · #2 October 15th, 2003, 08:33 PM

>3. In a tie both participants die.

Nice. I like that.
It's still potent though. The nations with mages that have astral-1 skill will have to worry about a beefy astral mage waltzing in and cleaning house.

>there is a new more difficult and expensive astral spell that works like gateway used to, as well as a similar difficult death spell that carries with it a few danger for those using it.

Excellent.
I like that it's still available, just more difficult.

>1) Super Combatants are practically non-existent

I must really wonder if this is true, or if you just haven't been abused yet.

>There is new combat system that allows units to hit enemy with fire shield before they take damage

While this is a good first step, it would barely degrade many super-combatants.

>Also, any following attack after first one (during same turn of course) reduces protection by 1 and defender's fatigue also increases chances of penetrating armor. In effect, units may gang up on "super combatant" and take him down even if they suffer heavy losses.

It's this way in Dom I as well. A well constructed super combatant will still clean house.

The worst offenders were Ice Devils, which were simply too cheap, and were easy to mass produce. Father Illearths and Pazazu also made quite an impact. I'm hoping this all got toned down a few notches.

>2) Well, I'm not 100% sure about change since I'm not sure how it was, but you can move armies between friendly labs and there is teleport spell that can teleport your mage anywhere.

If the personal movement spells are still working, which is what you seem to imply, then players will react by changing strategy to promote mobile super combatants, and mobile mage teams. If you can bring the mages but not the armies, then that's what will happen. Players will abuse mobility at any opportunity. I know I do...

> Also, seasonal spirits have been toned down and since there are seasons in game now, their power depends on time of season they are in.

Sounds interesting, but I'd need to see that in action before comment.

>There are elemental Kings and Queens that can "Summon Allies" (no cost of gems)

That was in Dom I.

>They are in limited number for each element and each has his own name, characteristics and special abilities.

However in Dom I they wern't limited.

>Not sure if it was in Dom I but there is Fairy Queen that can be summoned which can heal your troops just like Arco priestess.

Always a good summons. The heal ability is new, as far as I know.

>5) There have been discussions about that already but you are first person I saw that liked previous system better.

I'm not sure which system I like better.
I am just concerned because this is a major change to game balance.

>6) Wards have been nerfed, but Pocus is right. There are high-level (8th level) enchantment spells that will protect all your troops.

I have no problem with that. In fact I like that the potent spells are available but take more effort.

>10) Seeking arrows and flaming arrows are still working but not overpowered since they cost significant number of gems

I'm more concerned with Mind Hunt and Vengence of the Dead.

[ October 15, 2003, 19:34: Message edited by: apoger ]

Endoperez · #3 October 15th, 2003, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
Well... I hope the mod tools are powerful enough to change this. But I'd prefer if it was changed in the vanilla game. Especially 8 and 9... making the effect proportional to dominion strength might be useful... so that you could still target any province, but you couldn't annihilate the enemy's capitol easily and cheaply. Something like... +10 your dominion gives a full-strength spell, +10 enemy dominion gives a zero-strength spell, and anywhere in between gives a linearly interpolated strength.

-Cherry

Not a bad idea, but full strength only in +10 for you is insane... They aren't THAT powerful! But, if it only gave full damage in your own dominion, atleast two or three candles, that would be better...
But this does not work with the population destructives. You could only kill people who believe in you. THAT would be mad!

Oh, and did you notice that Crusher-thingie? It seems constructs must be healed in labs now... Can Ulmish smiths heal them too?

Dammit, and I might not be getting the game before christmas.

This is not fair...

Jasper · #4 October 15th, 2003, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pocus:

quote:
Originally posted by johan osterman:

quote:
Originally posted by apoger:
8> Army BLasting - Stuff like Murdering Winter. Might be more popular than ever now that it's harder to project power.

8,9,10: Are more or less the same.
The great equalizers and I never liked them. Too easy to level a stronger opponent with them. Beside that the most often used by far, Murdering winter, does cold damages, so some nations (guess what, Caelum is in the list too!) are immune to it.

I always disliked these as well, as there's no defense against them, but had never seen a game go long enough to really see them in action and so held my tongue.

I just recently have seen Murdering Winter in action, and it's every bit as bad as I suspected it would be. I can think of no viable tactic to take an opponent's castle, short of using only inherently cold resistant troops, or bringing so many I can afford the losses. :-/

Perhaps I'm daft and am missing, but the existance of such spells seems to make mundane units useless once they come out.

Oh, and it's definitely great for Caelum, Jotunheim, and Ermor. Although this may be somewhat mitigated now that there's only partial resistances.

Mortifer · #5 October 15th, 2003, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jasper:

quote:
Originally posted by Pocus:

quote:
Originally posted by johan osterman:

quote:
Originally posted by apoger:
8> Army BLasting - Stuff like Murdering Winter. Might be more popular than ever now that it's harder to project power.

8,9,10: Are more or less the same.
The great equalizers and I never liked them. Too easy to level a stronger opponent with them. Beside that the most often used by far, Murdering winter, does cold damages, so some nations (guess what, Caelum is in the list too!) are immune to it.
I always disliked these as well, as there's no defense against them, but had never seen a game go long enough to really see them in action and so held my tongue.

I just recently have seen Murdering Winter in action, and it's every bit as bad as I suspected it would be. I can think of no viable tactic to take an opponent's castle, short of using only inherently cold resistant troops, or bringing so many I can afford the losses. :-/

Perhaps I'm daft and am missing, but the existance of such spells seems to make mundane units useless once they come out.

Oh, and it's definitely great for Caelum, Jotunheim, and Ermor. Although this may be somewhat mitigated now that there's only partial resistances.

Lads, if the mod tools will be powerful enough and we can disable spells, these problems won't exist. Simply you will have the chance to disallow the disliked spells.

[ October 15, 2003, 20:33: Message edited by: Mortifer ]

Aristoteles · #6 October 15th, 2003, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mortifer:

quote:
Originally posted by Jasper:

quote:
Originally posted by Pocus:

quote:
Originally posted by johan osterman:

quote:
Originally posted by apoger:
8> Army BLasting - Stuff like Murdering Winter. Might be more popular than ever now that it's harder to project power.

8,9,10: Are more or less the same.
The great equalizers and I never liked them. Too easy to level a stronger opponent with them. Beside that the most often used by far, Murdering winter, does cold damages, so some nations (guess what, Caelum is in the list too!) are immune to it.
I always disliked these as well, as there's no defense against them, but had never seen a game go long enough to really see them in action and so held my tongue.

I just recently have seen Murdering Winter in action, and it's every bit as bad as I suspected it would be. I can think of no viable tactic to take an opponent's castle, short of using only inherently cold resistant troops, or bringing so many I can afford the losses. :-/

Perhaps I'm daft and am missing, but the existance of such spells seems to make mundane units useless once they come out.

Oh, and it's definitely great for Caelum, Jotunheim, and Ermor. Although this may be somewhat mitigated now that there's only partial resistances.
Lads, if the mod tools will be powerful enough and we can disable spells, these problems won't exist. Simply you will have the chance to disallow the disliked spells.

IF...but hopefully it will have the spell disabling part.

johan osterman · #7 October 15th, 2003, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jasper:
Oh, and it's definitely great for Caelum, Jotunheim, and Ermor. Although this may be somewhat mitigated now that there's only partial resistances.

There are not only partial resistances, just that the spells affecting the entire battlefield only offer partial resistance. As long as you are not besieging there are domes, but when you siege this is not an option. One way to deal with this is to take out the opposing mage casting the murdering winter. After he has used murdering winter you can target him with veangeance of the dead for example.