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  #1  
Old October 31st, 2003, 06:09 AM

Psitticine Psitticine is offline
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Default Re: Concerns about lack of Tutorial and Price of Game

As usual, I'm a bit short on hard facts and the like, but there are some things I can say with confidence.

I've been involved in several projects for Shrapnel. One was a patch for TWE with so much new content that most companies would labelled it an expansion pack and charged for it instead of giving it away for free. I've never seen them just grab the money and orphan the product, unlike so many other game companies do. That's one of the reasons I hang around this place the way I do.

Shrapnel has always been great about continuing to support their products. I think they are very aware of the value of a satisfied customer, which also leads me to believe the pricing of Dom II might not be entirely a matter of choice.

As I've mentioned, I was involved in the text editing. I didn't do the ingame text (although my partner edited the unit descriptions) but I did do the item and spell lists. Those lists are to be printed, in color if my info is still correct, and that is a LOT of printing cost. I suspect, but cannot confirm, that having this extensive hardcopy documention is what has boosted the price above Shrapnel's norm.

It's a great game, and I can't find anything in the stores around here that's cheaper (except for the grab-bag "day old" sale products, which can either be overlooked classics or just plain turkeys.) When it comes to quality, I have come to expect a price of $50 or more, which makes me feel $45 for Dom II is a good deal.

(Oh, and for those who are thinking "what does he care? He'll probably get a copy for being a beta-tester!", I should mention that I'm going to be buying several copies to give as Christmas presents this year, so the price is a viable concern for me as well.)

Let me add that I do think the game needs more of a tutorial, however, and am hoping there will be downloads to assist in closing that gap. The idea of "starter" games seems like an excellent move in that direction.
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  #2  
Old October 31st, 2003, 09:42 AM
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Alneyan Alneyan is offline
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Default Re: Concerns about lack of Tutorial and Price of Game

Quote:
Originally posted by Mephisto:
It is an expensive game and especially for the continental Europeans you have to consider that to this price you have to add shipping and about 16% tax. Ordering from the UK doesn't make it any better. Not all the people have 60€ (about 72 US$) for a game and some just have to chose what game they buy. If you can get sometimes nearly 2 games right in the shop next door for the price you get one game from Shrapnel it's hard to decide. A distributor in continental Europe would help Shrapnel with their selling IMHO.

P.S.: I hope they begin the shipping soon.
Yes I support this suggestion obviously, it would make things much easier for us, poor Europeans. Out of idle curiosity, is this 16% tax present in all countries of the EU?

PvK, I only had the demo for Dominions 1 at that time. (I seem to recall there were musics though... Or was I daydreaming?)
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  #3  
Old October 31st, 2003, 10:55 AM
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Mephisto Mephisto is offline
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Default Re: Concerns about lack of Tutorial and Price of Game

Quote:
Originally posted by Alneyan:
Out of idle curiosity, is this 16% tax present in all countries of the EU?
Don't know. That's here in Germany. Some other European countries have a higher VAT. Anyway, Tim Brooks just posted in another thread that one should use the Global Priority Ordering as these orders are labelled "Documents" and therefore don't get the VAT added. This really helps to cut down the price (16% in my case ).
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  #4  
Old October 31st, 2003, 11:07 AM
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Alneyan Alneyan is offline
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Default Re: Concerns about lack of Tutorial and Price of Game

Quote:
Originally posted by Mephisto:
quote:
Originally posted by Alneyan:
Out of idle curiosity, is this 16% tax present in all countries of the EU?
Don't know. That's here in Germany. Some other European countries have a higher VAT. Anyway, Tim Brooks just posted in another thread that one should use the Global Priority Ordering as these orders are labelled "Documents" and therefore don't get the VAT added. This really helps to cut down the price (16% in my case ).
Yes, thanks a lot for the link on this other thread! It seems like there are even distributors in Europe. Sweet.
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Old October 31st, 2003, 11:56 AM

Humer Humer is offline
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Default Re: Concerns about lack of Tutorial and Price of Game

Quote:
Originally posted by Particle:
quote:
Originally posted by Dryton:
I would like to get everyone's feedback on this or just some explanation to a loyal Shrapnel fan as to why I should pay 45.95 for a game that should be priced around 34.95 or less.
I second this.
Hm. I consider Dominions 2 well worth the price. It's not just the game is great (demo), but the dev *really* take time to listen to community. Even when the game was in development. This in itself is huge. And if the patching process is anywhere near of what it was in Dom I... well notch an another one.

And I don't even scratch the replayability of 17 nations, themes, maps and such.

So I ask thee: Why Dom 2 should be priced about $34,85 or less? Because it's distributed by Shrapnelgames?

- Humer
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  #6  
Old November 1st, 2003, 02:26 AM
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Default Re: Concerns about lack of Tutorial and Price of Game

Hi All:

Dryton raises some issues that I believe should be addressed by Shrapnel here. Hope you don't mind me barging in on your discussion.

As most of you know, we don't supply our games through the normal retailer network, as this is a sure way to make sure our developers make absolutely nothing on their games. Therefore, we don't sell tens of thousands of copies of our games. This alone, the economy of printing, makes our games a higher price point than most of what you find in the market place.

We have titles that have been in the market for 4 years that now, on reprints, cost as much as 25% more than they did when Shrapnel Games started. This due to the fact that printers and cd duplicators raise their pricing on an annual basis. We have never raised our pricing. In fact, we are considering moving our pricing higher in the coming month. Not because we want to, but because we need to.

The manual for Dominions II is our largest to date, weighing in at 146 pages. It is however, not in color as someone else posted. Wish we could have done it in color, but for a manual this size, the price of printing in color would have been over $30.00 per unit. Still, the manual is huge and includes a reference of all magic items and spells.

As the Shrapnel faithful also knows, we support our products relentlessly through patches, demo downloads, these forums and a customer service department second to none in this industry. All of these things cost alot of money. We run two dedicated servers - soon to be three - just to handle the traffic.

While I'm thinking of it, someone mentioned in another post that maybe we would sell more copies if we lowered the price. We have experimented with this through sales and special offers and have found this not to be the case for Shrapnel. Our special pricing events do nothing (less than 5%) to increase sales. People buy our games not on price, but because they like the type of game we are known for. Even long term price changes, we have had a few, do nothing to increase our sales.

Which brings me to Dryton's comment about this not being an "A-list" game. Dryton, this is an "A-list" GAME , as all of our titles are. What it is not, is an "A-list" piece of fluff. We don't publish fluff -- gameplay is what games should be about, and Dominions II has more game and replay value than any major publishers product that I know of.

Now alot of the Dominions crowd is new to Shrapnel Games and probably doesn't understand our philosophy as is stated in the above paragraph. We are all about making quality games, and very little about making the next generation graphics engine that has no gaming value. We couldn't sell these types of games the way we do. We would have to put them into retail just to get the "oh wow, look at the graphics" impulse buy. Does that mean we don't want our games to look nice? Not at all. And I thnk all of our games do look nice. They just aren't all state of the art. If that offends you, I'm sure you have an e-retailer just down the street that has shelves full of graphics marvels.

Okay, on to the tutorial. We are considering doing something with the demos. With each new developer, we get a new crowd. When I sat down with the game I spent about an hour playing it and realized the depth and the intangibles of this title. This game is something special and if presales are any indication, alot of others think so too. This game can be almost anything you want in a gaming experience and we thought limiting it with alot of pre-setup would not be a good thing. We may have been wrong. We know this partially because a group of people are unhappy with the AI. I say to them, you haven't set it up for a hard game, if you think the AI is that easy. So, we will keep you informed of what we decide to do with the demos.

I have gotten off on a rant, which was not my intention. Sorry. I hope this helped explain Shrapnel's position some.

Happy Gaming!
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  #7  
Old November 1st, 2003, 02:45 AM

Mortifer Mortifer is offline
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Default Re: Concerns about lack of Tutorial and Price of Game

Quote:
Originally posted by Tim Brooks:
gameplay is what games should be about, and Dominions II has more game and replay value than any major publishers product that I know of.
How true Tim. I agree with this totally.

Also 50 bucks is a very good price for the most complex strategy game ever.
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