Repel attempt bonuses

[Keir Maxwell]

Not quite the right analogy Nagot as I did say spearmen and a Giant not a pike block or even a hopilite phalanx. Better to use the example of an elephant crashing into spearmen which is much more of an unclear issue and very dependent on morale and organisation of the spearmen in question. Repulse attempts should probably include the morale of both sides in the calculation.

In general I feel it is not worthwhile trying to amend the Dom II combat system to make it fit better with the realities of individual combat. Rather we should be looking at the troop type matchups and trying to get them right and improving the unit feel of the game. I'd love to see push backs and well trained troops showing greater cohesion etc. However I recognise these are major changes and not part of the immediate priorities.

I do think history has a huge importance for understanding the way combat in dominions should work. While there are obviously many departures from reality in dominions there is a historically inspired core to Dom and getting that "right" will make the rest fell more plausible.

Enough from me.

Ciao

Keir

[Pocus]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:

quote:

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Originally posted by PvK:


Another thing that could help the whole combat resolution, would be to shuffle the moves of all melee units, rather than having an entire side all move at the same time. Missile units could still all fire in Groups. This would help reduce an entire mob getting to attack before their enemies, based on an accident of which entire group moved into range first.

PvK

A long time ago we tried to implement simultaneous moves, but it introduced several problems and the battles were much more difficult to inspect and understand with mages casting spells from side to side. We decided it was not a good solution.

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this is very intriguing. Would you care to expand your answer? Why it posed problems? A system with simultaneous moves seems to be far more realistic AND fun. Was it a balance question, or a coding problem?

Have you played the GMT serie of ancient battles? There was this kind of system, with better leaders trumping the weaker ones. I always liked the game flow resulting from this mechanic.

[Mortifer]

Originally posted by Pocus:

quote:

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Originally posted by Kristoffer O:

quote:

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Originally posted by PvK:


Another thing that could help the whole combat resolution, would be to shuffle the moves of all melee units, rather than having an entire side all move at the same time. Missile units could still all fire in Groups. This would help reduce an entire mob getting to attack before their enemies, based on an accident of which entire group moved into range first.

PvK

A long time ago we tried to implement simultaneous moves, but it introduced several problems and the battles were much more difficult to inspect and understand with mages casting spells from side to side. We decided it was not a good solution.

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this is very intriguing. Would you care to expand your answer? Why it posed problems? A system with simultaneous moves seems to be far more realistic AND fun. Was it a balance question, or a coding problem?

Have you played the GMT serie of ancient battles? There was this kind of system, with better leaders trumping the weaker ones. I always liked the game flow resulting from this mechanic.

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Hm actually this is a good suggestion. I guess it wasnt a coding problem btw. KJ will let us know propably.

[PvK]

My counter-suggestion on the simultaneous issue, would be to have spellcasters and missile attackers alternate from side to side as they currently do, but have units who are moving or doing melee attacks, have their sequence mixed up between sides. This would keep the efficiency and clarity for missile and magic events, and keep the nice "barrage" missile attacks. Melee would look a bit more chaotic and it might be harder to see who hacked whom when, but it would help the "balance" issues of entire armies moving and attacking all at once while the enemy front units can't do much.

PvK

[Chris Byler]

Originally posted by PvK:
My counter-suggestion on the simultaneous issue, would be to have spellcasters and missile attackers alternate from side to side as they currently do, but have units who are moving or doing melee attacks, have their sequence mixed up between sides. This would keep the efficiency and clarity for missile and magic events, and keep the nice "barrage" missile attacks. Melee would look a bit more chaotic and it might be harder to see who hacked whom when, but it would help the "balance" issues of entire armies moving and attacking all at once while the enemy front units can't do much.

PvK

There's a problem with that suggestion: the same unit can move and fire in the same turn (happens all the time when firing at fleeing enemies, in fact).

I don't really like the advantage given to the army that strikes first, either, but I think it's a symptom of a deeper problem: melee combat is too deadly too fast. That is why missile troops are less effective, battlefield magic is weak, armor is too powerful: melees are over in 2 or 3 rounds, before missiles or magic can do much damage and before fatigue can accumulate. Because melees are over in 2 or 3 rounds, the first strike is much more important.

[PvK]

My intention was that missile/spell units who move and and attack would all move and attack on a per-side basis, like they do now.

PvK

[Pocus]

Originally posted by Chris Byler:
melee combat is too deadly too fast. That is why missile troops are less effective, battlefield magic is weak, armor is too powerful: melees are over in 2 or 3 rounds, before missiles or magic can do much damage and before fatigue can accumulate. Because melees are over in 2 or 3 rounds, the first strike is much more important.

strange, most of the melee I see can process for more than 10 rounds, when things are equilibrated that is. Dont base your facts on solo play where the player bring prot 18 HI against an unsupplied rabble of milicias. In pbem I have often see HI fall from fatigue after a long fight, especially when there is 100+ units for each side. The combat Last so long in fact that the quivers of archers are depleted and they start to charge with daggers.