second class super combattants

[Chris Byler]

Originally posted by LordArioch:
I decided to quickly throw together such a pretender with the magic levels and just run him around blindly seeing how many str 5 independent provinces he could capture. I think I got maybe 10 before he died.
The problem with that particular setup as with most SC I've made is the fatigue. Some spell that targets a unit and makes a chest wound would be really effective against pretenders without enc 0.
My manticore picked up a chest wound and that took him out. Still, I think I see that the key elements of the design are from the astral magic.
(Body Ethereal, Astral Shield, Personal Luck)
This same astral magic leaves him somewhat exposed to mind duels.

That's probably why he suggested Astral 5. It will take a while for an Astral 5 to lose a magic duel.

Something with high MR and a magic weapon (preferably armor piercing or negating) would probably do better.

Is there a non-personal Version of Astral Weapon?

One thing that I think would help fight supercombatants (and seasonals and elementals if they are still a problem) would be a variety of weapon enchanting spells that affect a squad of units. I think there is already a Weapons of Sharpness (weapons become AP and magic) but there should also be:
Flaming Weapons (like the fire 9 blessing)
Frozen Weapons (similar to flaming, but the extra damage is cold instead of heat)
Shock Weapons (adds 3-4 armor negating lightning damage)
Poisoned Weapons (adds normal poison)
Astral Weapons (significantly more expensive and requires higher magic levels than the above; makes affected weapons armor negating).
and even
Deadly Weapons (adds Decay effect like Bane Blades - this should maybe cost even more than Astral Weapons).

A squad of elite troops (wardens, emerald guards, vanir, etc) with one of these could hurt some supercombatants. Also, all of these enchantments would cause the affected weapons to become magic (and thus ignore etherealness) - even if the target is immune to the extra effect (elements, poison, Decay). Etherealness is one of the biggest protections supercombatants have against ordinary troops - a flat 75% miss chance that stacks with all other defenses.

The earth Version should be the cheapest and lowest research, so earth still has an advantage in this area (in addition to the combo with Strength of Giants).

As for things that already exist in Dom II...

The blood magic item Flesh Eater always causes a chest wound to anything it hits. It only costs 5 blood slaves and requires blood 1, so any nation that can get random picks can get some.

It might be Construction 6 though, I don't remember. Also, I don't know if it has to do nonzero damage to cause a chest wound, or if it just has to hit.


On the other hand, I think if you are having problems with fatigue on your SC they are not all that super. Serious supercombatants (if they are not naturally immune to fatigue) should have enough reinvigoration (either directly or through life drain) to keep their fatigue down. Unless they are being repeatedly mind bLasted of course.

[LordArioch]

I'm not actually new to Dominions, I'm just new to SC's. Haven't really tried them before. So the key features of a SC would be in order of importance:
*Fatigue: Be undead or have summon earth power/nature reinvig items. Or actually a shroud and earth magic for the bless.
*Defense: Either armor or ironskin to raise prot., and then either a high defense somehow or luck/etheral, possibly from items. Regeneration is nice too to stop afflictions. Astral shield decent too.
*Damage: Trample, fire shield, snake bladder stick, maybe area damage spells if reinvigoration and magic are high enough.
*Magic resist: Spell or item to raise MR. Items for elemental protections as needed.

Missing anything?

And I did forget about the Flesh Eater...but it seems a bit risky running up to close range to cause the chest wound. And maybe my Moloch is just broken but after a fight or 2 he starts routing before the enemy even gets near, even in friendly dominion.
Also it seems etheral/luck might be a bit powerful in general. Given even attack/defense you only hit a etheral/luck unit 1/16 of the time, which seems a bit excessive.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by ywl:
Moloch is not as good as he used to be . If a SC attack with any troops, when all the troops rout, he routs. So, it's better to send him attack alone - a risk you have to take. In my few test, if the imps rout, he didn't (and he shouldn't or it'll be a bug making him a lousy pretender). But I haven't tested very thoroughly.

It's not just if the troops rout. If they take damage or are killed the leader will rout as well. I had a prince of death rout on turn two of the battle because the independent archers killed two of his longdead bodyguards.