Niefelheim, bless and the outrageous

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:
I'm starting to wonder if the Niefelheim theme isn't the worst choice for Jotunheim.

I think we are getting to the stage its a case of what is the best approach to a particular game plan/theme rather than an entire race.

Back to the Ice Age is also a themtatic race based on turning the world into a frozen wastleland where civilisation dies out before a new thawing comes and the cycle begins again. It the Earth Mother saying start again - enough of these uptty patriachies! I wanted to do this in Dom I but didn't have tools there are now.

In terms of game play the idea is focused on cold based SC and mini SC's with a monster Earth mother somewhere nearby. So Niefelheim seems the logical approach as woodsmen don't look that promising (correct me if I'm wrong) and Niefel giant plus the commmander Version are really nice with bless. The Niefel giant commander is like being able to buy another pretender. Incidentily neither of the Niefel's look the strong to me without the powerful bless effects.

If you are looking for a more balenced Jotun race then Niefelhiem is obviously not the place to start and the Norna's and Siethkona's are very important.

What is going to be stronger? We can't answer that easily right now. We can work on getting the race tight - maximise the amount of elements which combine together to make themselves and whole more potent. Even weak looking features become powerful in the right context. Something I loved about M:TG deck design.

Don't worry, be happy . . .

Keir

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

(3) If you want to play with uber-bless effects, 3 Woodsmen cost the same as a Niefel Giant, get slightly worse stats (except prot which is much worse), but get 50% more combined hp.

I'm not a supercomabatent expert as I've always found them to risky compared to building early killer armies - my favourite approach in the past. However I'm not convinced about the Woodsmen because of the protection. Its to low to survive and the key to SC's is being virtually impossible to kill vs your present opponent.

What about:

Dominion: Heart of Winter, strength 6
Virtue - Air 9/Nature 4
Cold +3
Leaves 123 points to tune the remaining to your liking.

Or, if you plan to produce Hell Swords en masse (and therefore, don't need the nature 4):

Dominion: Utgard, strength 6
Virtue - Air 9
Cold +3
Order +3 (the Utgard theme requires order +1 at least, so why not go the whole route)
Leaves 120 points for extra goodies. At least perfectionnists will have the satisfaction of spending every available design point.

Wondering what the air 9 is for? Orb lightning? Air bless effects arn't exactly inspiring but I guess with quickness Orb lightning could be worth it.

I like the Son of Niefel for Jotunheim - early it him and his wolves make all the difference.

What does quickness 50% do for blessed mages?

With Jotun or Abyssia I like a very high dominion - like 10. Using 8 for the "Back to the Ice Age" race is the compromise in race design I do not like - 6 is very low. Dominion is normally important in battle but for cold and hot races it is often crucial - playing Dom I I lost two moderately well equipped Ice Devil to 30 tritons in a hot sea! My own heat dominion to make it all the more embarrassing!

Don't worry, be happy . . .

Keir

[HJ]

On a side note, there is definitely something strange happening with heat scales in DomII. All other scales seem fairly stable, but the heat/cold can vary greatly even in a very strong dominon provinces and irrespective of seasons (sometimes even contrary to them). Maybe it has something to do with provinces themselves?
Has anyone else noticed this? I remeber Nagot posting something about the first turn oddities, but this is happening later in the game as well.

[Wendigo]

HJ, I pointed to this instability somewhere in the bugs threadm, maybe you would like to expand on it there. I might understand a swift towards heat in summer or cold in winter, but I seem to be getting both a stronger swift than I would expect, and in the wrong seasons.

[Jasper]

There are sites that could do this; did you rule them out?

[Jasper]

Originally posted by Keir Maxwell:
Wondering what the air 9 is for? Orb lightning? Air bless effects arn't exactly inspiring but I guess with quickness Orb lightning could be worth it.
[/QB]

You're implying that this defends against spells? I thought it was only missiles... If so, which spells are covered? All? Anything with < 100 precision? Anything with a trajectory like a missile?

[Wendigo]

Originally posted by Jasper:
There are sites that could do this; did you rule them out?

I doubt this was the case, as I am talking about the capitol with no hidden sites supposedly.

Unless we have some sites in Dom II that work as temples influencing neighbouring provinces??

A Heat+1 scale in a Niefelheim cold+3 capitol in Autumn is silly IMO.

Can provide IW with the savegame if required.