Opinions wanted on new tech (Pirate Mod)

[Trachmyr]

As for the Heavy/VH/XH concept... I just now realize what your hull strengthening is supposed to accomplish ("decoy" internal componets), so this idea dosen't really do what you want...

This idea I'm going to add to crystaline tech... it's not armor, it only helps prevent the ship from destruction not being "gutted"... diffrent levels have diffrent sizes/hp (would normally have 1 Version per ship size, but since custom Groups is not working, that idea is moot).
I might add some basic abilities to the componet, such as a bit more propulsion w/o supply usage... so even your "gutted" ship can get back to repair faster... even if it has lost all engines.

But now I see what your "reinforced hull" does, and it's quite intriguing... I might just try it out.



[This message has been edited by Trachmyr (edited 22 April 2001).]

[Suicide Junkie]

quote:

---

This idea I'm going to add to crystaline tech... it's not armor, it only helps prevent the ship from destruction not being "gutted"... diffrent levels have diffrent sizes/hp (would normally have 1 Version per ship size, but since custom Groups is not working, that idea is moot).
I might add some basic abilities to the componet, such as a bit more propulsion w/o supply usage... so even your "gutted" ship can get back to repair faster... even if it has lost all engines

---

Interesting... a ship Core Component.
You might have a problem if the core gets hit early on in the battle. It'll then absorb every hit until it is destroyed, and would effectively give your ship a lot of armor. You need some way to make sure it is one of the Last components to get hit.

Perhaps if it had no structure points, but had around 150kT of emissive strength. That way, if it was hit, it wouldn't keep taking hits (maybe), and only a big bLast would destroy it.

As for propulsion, supplies would be low, and I think the destroyed engines still waste supplies when you move. If you use a solar sail type ability, with a unique bonus type, you can give it movement without interfering with normal movement or bonus or solar sail bonus. (Val 1 is how much bonus, Val 2 assigns a "family" of bonus, different families add up)

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 23 April 2001).]

[Trachmyr]

150KT strength... oh, man... If you knew how much I modded my game so far you'd think that was funny too... for instance wave motion guns do 600points of damage and a Armor3 componet has 100hits and only weighs 5 tons, a phased shield gen5 gives 1200 shield points.

But as to your comment, I see your point. Do you know exactly how a componet gets targeted... does it give an equal chance for each componet, is it based on tonnage, or does it go after the easiest to deystroy componet first... for instance, I'll have a ship with a few pieces of armor strong enough to resist the damage of damaging warp points... additionally I'll have 4 external missiles and 4 PD guns (both the missiles and guns count as "armor"), never fail that when I take damage from the WP all missiles/PD guns are deystroyed... and the armor is untouched. This leads me to think that damage is applied first to componets the damage CAN deystroy (or the weakest), then to the tougher componets. As far as an "equal or tonnage based" chance of which componet gets hit... I have 4 armor pieces, that weigh 40 tons total and the missiles (10) + the PDs (5) weigh 60... thus if it was random, I should see the ship come out unscated about 1/3 (random) or 2/5 (tonnage) of the time... and if that's the way it works, as long as the "Crystaline reinforcement" has the most hits, it'll be the Last to go. But, then again I'm just guessing untill I test it.

I'm curious, What do you think about my RAP Armor?

[Suicide Junkie]

quote:

---

Do you know exactly how a component gets targeted...

---

Well, with identical components, its random.

Internals only:
As for it choosing the weakest, NO.
As for it choosing by mass, NO.

When I simmed a battle using the HBs, I had a "Bertha ++++" class ship.

The first hull hit destroyed 4 HBs.
The second hit took out 2 Shield Regen, and 1 HBs
The third hit took out an engine or two and some HBs
The fourth hit took out 2 more Shield Regen, and more HBs.
Then the enemy was dead.

I'd have to do some tests for armor damage. There could even be a difference between combat and natural (or mine) damage.

[Suicide Junkie]

Results of armor test:

DN size ship with 6 of every type of armor.

1) 6 ablative armor gone. (14kT damage resist)
2) most of Armor III gone (50kT damage resist)
3) total of 5 Armor III destroyed. 2 stealth armor down (100kT resist)
4) Remaining: 1 armor, 3 stealth, 5 emissive (120 kT +30 emiss)
5) Armor III dead. 5 emiss, 5 crystal, 2 stealth
6) 4 emiss, 4 crys, 1 stealth
7) 3 emiss, 4 crys, 1 stealth
8) 2 emiss, 3 crys, 1 stealth
9) 1 emiss, 3 crys, 1 stealth
10)emiss dead, 3 crys, 1 stealth
11)stealth dead, 3 crys
12)
13) 2 crys
14)
15) 1 crys
16)
17)
18) Crys dead
19)
20)
21)
etc. Clearly, organic armor kicks ***, cause theres still 6 of em.

Round 2:
1) 60 damage shot, kills 4 ablative.
2) 60 dmg, kills 1 ablative, 1 standard.
3) 60 dmg, kill 1 ablative
4) 60 dmg, kill 1 stealth
5) 60 dmg, kill 1 standard.

So, it looks like the armor damage is somewhat random, but favors hits to weaker or smaller segments.

New Test:
Legend
--------------------------------
* = Evidence that the stealth armor has taken partial damage
= Stealth armor destroyed
X = Me screwing up. stealth armor was either destroyed, or evidence was showing & I missed it.
--------------------------------

Start) 10 Stealth (30kT, 100Hp) 30 Standard (10kT, 50Hp)

1) 10 Stealth, 24 standard
2) 10 Stel, 19 stan *
3) 10 stel, 12 stan
4) 10 stel, 7 stan *
5) 8 stel, 4 stan
6) 6 stel, 0 stan

Test 2 (60 at a time)
1) 29 stan
2) 28 stan
3) 27 stan
4) 26 stan
5) 24 stan
6) 23 stan
7) 22 stan
8) 21 stan
9) 20 stan
10) 18 stan
11) 17 stan
12) 16
13) 15
14) 14
15) 13*
16) 13 stan, 9 stel
17) 12 stan, 9 stel
18) 11 / 9
19) 11 / 9 *
20) 10 / 9 the smiley below should probably be here, but i think i miscounted the remaining armor.
21) 9 / 9 X
22) 8 / 9 X
23) 7 / 9 X
24) 6 / 9 X
25) 4 / 8
26) 3 / 8
27) 2 / 8
28) 1 / 8
29) 1 / 8 *
30) 1 / 7
31) 0 / 7

SO....
-There is some element of randomness
-Small/weak armors are hit more often on first impact
-the second component hit is likely chosen in a similar manner as the first hit.

Third test
Start) 10 Stealth (30kT, 100Hp), 10 Crys (30kT, 150Hp)

only showing when a comp was killed:
1) 9 Stealth, 10 crys
2) 7 Stealth, 10 crys !! 2 stealth killed with one 60 dmg hit !!
3) 6 / 10
4) 5 / 10
5) 4 / 10
6) 3 / 10
7) 2 / 10
8) 1 / 10
9) 1 / 9
10) 0 / 9

round 2
1) 8 / 10
2) 7,6,5
3) 4 / 10
4) 4 / 9
5) 4 / 8
6) 4 / 7
7) 3 / 7
8) 3 / 6
9) 2 / 6
10) 1 / 6
11) 1 / 5
12) 0 / 5

Hmm...
-Mass does not seem to be the determining factor.
-Lower resistance armors are hit more often.
-The wandering "partial" damage increases the likelyhood that weak armors will be killed. (strong armor dosent die, next hit, the "partial" damage randomly goes into a weak armor, killing two)

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 23 April 2001).]

[Trachmyr]

Very interesting... supports my theory that damage first goes to things that can be deystroyed... and divided so that the most number of componets can be deystroyed. Any "leftover" damage that isn't large enough to deystroy anything, goes to a random target... or is it carried over?

Thanx for running that test, I wonder if the same "rule" holds true for internal componets... the rammification of this mean that if your "HB" componets have very low hits, they will act more like armor than "decoys", if they have high hits then they will be the Last things deystroyed.

My head spins with the possibilites!

[This message has been edited by Trachmyr (edited 23 April 2001).]

[Suicide Junkie]

As for my HB components, they aren't armor, so this dosen't affect them.

I'm pretty sure that internals are totaly random. Otherwise, weapons would always be Last to die, since they have 50-70 HP, while the engines, bridge, etc have 10 HP.