is it not too much?

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by apoger:
It's my game philosophy that complexity should only be added when it adds to the enjoyment of the game.

What we have to ask ourselves is:
Does having some "flavor" from the seasons add enough enjoyment to counter the hassle of having to pay attention to seasons in order to optomize your magic creatures.

Honestly I don't think so.

I also don't see any additional benefit from the slight dominion shifts due to seasons.

What I do see is arguments that four seasons make a year and thus four turns is a year and [blah blah blah] isn't realistic in a year. "This % of growth isn't realistic in a year". "My troops shouldn't have to spend all of three months to pillage a province". None of this was an issue when using "turns". Having generic turns allowes suspension of disbelief for many things. By declaring 1 turn = 1 season you have backed yourself into a design corner and must now justify things according to time.

It's only my opinion, but my opinion is that seasons added little if anything to the game, and created perception issues that haunt your game design. I think it was a bad choice.

I partially agree with you on the turns versus the months issue, there is a point in keeping turns and other similar mechanics abstract as it avoids consistancy issues. On the other hand I do think the Calendar adds flavour, and it was a feature several people requested.

Also you say that seasons are an additional optimisation hassle, frankly I do not why taking seasons into account is different or more detrimental than any number of other strategic decisions. Launching your big attack at Niefelheim in the beginning of spring in order to suffer less from the cold is, to me, both a meaningful and enjoyable strategic dedision.

[PvK]

I'm with what Johan just said.

[PvK]

(Hit Enter twice trying to edit, and posted twice by accident. Might as well say something in the second message, so

BTW it is more than one turn per season.

[ November 05, 2003, 20:21: Message edited by: PvK ]

[Saber Cherry]

In Dominions 1 I thought it was most effective to create entire armies of Bears (with HI) or especially Lions (alone). Huge, strong, no upkeep, no supplies, no morale breaks, ethereal... a perfect army. The fact that a spell existed to counter them did not make them balanced, especially considering not many mages or nations can use blade wind. I think seasonal spirits are much better now.

[ November 06, 2003, 02:05: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

[HJ]

Seasons are indeed very flavourful and add to the immersion (and no, we won't mention other complexity issues )...

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by johan osterman:
I do think the Calendar adds flavour, and it was a feature several people requested.

Guilty - I'm one of those who supported the idea . Who was it that came up with it?

Launching your big attack at Niefelheim in the beginning of spring in order to suffer less from the cold is, to me, both a meaningful and enjoyable strategic dedision.

Exactly.

On the wider issue I think it is good if a game reflects the compexities of the world and in doing so undermines absolute control. It becomes harder to keep track of all the details and try and maximise everything. This encourages the use of informed intuition to make the right call without having to test bed to excess. The more the game captures the sublties of the real world the more knowledge of the real world improves our informed intuition . . . blah, blah, blah . . . lotsa abstract stuff . . . - am I losing you?

On the specific issue of Seasonal Spirits I think they were a major problem in Dom I despite the existance of counters. However I tend to aggree with Pocus (at this stage) that they are over priced now.

I have had a bit of fun with Fire Drakes. The key is to use them as artillery support not front line troopers. As far as I can tell their breath works like a short range fireball (ie. it generally misses ) and sets alight units in the surrounding area. As it is close to the action you do get more hits than with your fire mages. Its also available early and improves early conquering armies. I haven't yet run a standard theme Abysia though so its hard to get an idea of how useful they are although if fireballs got a bit more accurate (*does his best puppy interpretation*) then Fire Drakes would be a good option.

Don't worry, be happy . . .

Keir

[Pocus]

edit : changed all my post.

Just saw that the 33 hits (and not 44) was because the season was winter (and even in a heat +2 scale, they has a penalty it seems).

So I now reserve my opinion. Sorry for having started the thread (at least we can discuss of seasons, and drakes!). Just double cost for summer lions then. I wont conclude that this is too costly until I can effectively use them.

It seems the seasonal variation is +- 25%

[ November 06, 2003, 06:04: Message edited by: Pocus ]