So far what nations look strong... and weak?

[Gandalf Parker]

Note what he said as far as

There are MANY nations and sub-themes, and the game is new. It's going to take a while to get a solid grip on what's good and bad.
That said... this is my gut reaction to the major nations/themes;

Keep in mind that this is a deep and balanced game. If there was an obviously strongest nation then it would not be a well-done game.

A) a nation is strong if it matches the players style. If you want to play like a tank-commander then take ulm. If you tend to prefer research and magic then try Arcosphale. If you like air-dropped invasions try Man. If you like CIA secret armys try Pangaea.

B) a nation is weak if its strong points are ones you dont really use.

C) it can be a rude awakening in your first few multiplayer games to discover that your "weak" nations are someone elses "strongest" nations.

In Dom1 we went thru a LONG and enjoyable process of declaring certain nations to be too strong or unbalanced, then discovering that the balance was already there but in another nation we hadnt played seriously yet. I think the Devs had a great time waiting and watching for us to discover these.

We started saying "if you THINK its too strong then search for the response" and also that "if you think its weak and worthless then get creative in how it might be used".
EVENTUALLY we did find some things that we just couldnt balance out and tweaks showed up in patches for those. But it was a long way off from where we thought we had found such things. Personally I think its abit early to judge.

Some specialize in testing the "too strong" stuff. I like to concentrate on finding something interesting about the "who would ever choose this" stuff.

But that was a great list. One persons list (dont like Pangaeas default huh? hee hee hee). But everyones list will be different. Thats the great thing about this game.

[ November 18, 2003, 15:20: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[apoger]

>Wow. What a comprehensive list. Thanks!

My pleasure.


>If you were to rank the top 3 or 4 strongest and weakest nations overall, what would you say?

That's a tough call at this point. I'll give it a shot, with the disclaimer that the list will likely change as we become more experienced with the new game. Also keep in mind that I am looking at this from a distinctly multiplayer point of view.


Unreserved thumbs up:
Pythium
Man
Arcoscephale
Caelum


Potent:
Atlantis
Jotunheim, Utgard
Jotunheim, Neifelheim
R'lyeh
C'tis
Mictlan
Abysia
Machaka
Pythium, Serpent Cult
Vanhiem, Midgard

Solid:
T'ien Ch'i
Ermor, Broken Empire
Man, Last of the Tuatha
C'tis, Desert Tombs
C'tis, Miasma
Caelum, Return of the Raptors
Marignon
Pangaea
Pangaea, New Era
Pangaea, Carrion Woods
Vanheim
Jotunheim, Iron Woods

Slightly weak:
Ulm
Abysia, Blood of Humans
Ermor, Ashen Empire
Ermor, Soul Gate
Vanheim, Helheim
T'ien Ch'i, Spring and Autumn


Questionable:
Marignon, Diabolical Faith
Marignon, Fires of Faith
T'ien Ch'i, Barbarian Kings

[Joonie73]

Apoger, Arcos as one of the strongest nations? That is very surprising. I don't see any huge upside for them except their battle affliction-healing priestesses.

Originally posted by apoger:
>Wow. What a comprehensive list. Thanks!

My pleasure.


>If you were to rank the top 3 or 4 strongest and weakest nations overall, what would you say?

That's a tough call at this point. I'll give it a shot, with the disclaimer that the list will likely change as we become more experienced with the new game. Also keep in mind that I am looking at this from a distinctly multiplayer point of view.


Unreserved thumbs up:
Pythium
Man
Arcoscephale
Caelum


Potent:
Atlantis
Jotunheim, Utgard
Jotunheim, Neifelheim
R'lyeh
C'tis
Mictlan
Abysia
Machaka
Pythium, Serpent Cult
Vanhiem, Midgard

Solid:
T'ien Ch'i
Ermor, Broken Empire
Man, Last of the Tuatha
C'tis, Desert Tombs
C'tis, Miasma
Caelum, Return of the Raptors
Marignon
Pangaea
Pangaea, New Era
Pangaea, Carrion Woods
Vanheim
Jotunheim, Iron Woods

Slightly weak:
Ulm
Abysia, Blood of Humans
Ermor, Ashen Empire
Ermor, Soul Gate
Vanheim, Helheim
T'ien Ch'i, Spring and Autumn


Questionable:
Marignon, Diabolical Faith
Marignon, Fires of Faith
T'ien Ch'i, Barbarian Kings

Arco's get Elephants, Cheap Hoplites, Priestesses (of course), Mystic (Blood anyone?), and Astrologer with 3 in Astral plus a random and of couse they get the Natarajah pretender (Caelum too; I think Alex likes the Natty a little too much )

They have huge advantages if you play certain strategies and are solid performers all around. Even Last night when I tried a Turmoil 3, Luck 3 Crossbreedothon/Lucky Arco they were able to pump out very decent armies (with -21% Income no less) and mystics/astro/priestess's every turn.

[Gandalf Parker]

Arcosphale has always been a strong nation for those who want powerful magics for late-game. As the strongest in this area I always felt they should have been alittle weaker in the troops. Its always been difficult NOT to rank them number one game-winner in the multiplayer modes.

[apoger]

>I think Alex likes the Natty a little too much


The combination of Arco's ability to forge various items, healing for afflictions, extra hand slots, and zero cost, make the Nataraja a superb pretender choice.

I give it four thumbs up!

[Saber Cherry]

You know what would make Ulm a LOT stronger, and make perfect sense? Their heavy arbalests are currently semi-worthless, since they take massive resources to produce and are one of the few units capable of easily damaging Ulm units. To make matters worse, they only fire every 3 rounds.

But Ulm is weak against magic... so what if heavy arbalests got the "Air Shield Piercing" ability? A gust of wind is much more likely to knock down a light, feathered, aerodynamic arrow than a dense arbalest bolt. With this, Ulm would have some reason to build its crossbowmen, and a good defense against pesky armor-negating air mages.

"Air Shield Piercing" should half the Air Shield effect, by the way, not negate it.

-Cherry