So far what nations look strong... and weak?

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by Truper:
so it seems natural to want to maximize Order which of course means they are very unlikely to see any of the heroes. In my curent test game, I'm playing them with order +3, I am on turn 19, and have yet to get an event of any kind (random events are rare), much less a hero, although I did take luck +1 partially in hope of seeing them.

What I remember reading was that your chance of getting heroes is based on luck only and accumulates from turn to turn. With -3 luck no chance, with -2 1% +1% per turn resetting when you get one, with -1 2% pt etc.

Playing +1 luck I have got nationals heroes at a good clip.

Cheers

Keir

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by Zen:
War needs no reasons, alliances happen regardless of your actions for the safety blanket. This theme only means you are cut out of most alliances (all except Ermor) unless you have the upper hand.

It has been noted previously in relation to Ermor in Dom I that with experianced players an alliance/co-operation with Ermor is viable. With care you can keep Ermors dominion under control - if you are limited neighbours - and if not then having Ermor on the other side of a mutual enemy could work well.

As I pretty much only play no alliance games or scenario's with set/restricted alliances in MP I'm open to limited co-operation (ie leave them alone) with anybody whos growth can furthur my aims. If my race has powerful anti-undead capabilities then thats all true twice over - always nice to have the edge over races one is leaving for later. Are you reassured Zen?

cheers

Keir

[apoger]

>To me Tien Chi magic seems very... muddled.

So far I only see two good ways to exploit their magic.

1- Wait for an air-2 mage, and get the Celestial Summons.

2- Use communion to drive up the mages power levels.

Seems limited. I'll have to play with it some more.

What I do like about TC is the troop selection. They get both archers and crossbow. I also like the footman with glaive for 10/10. It's lightweight, but packs a heavy weapon. Better than many other junky light troops.

The horse archers seem interesting as well. I haven't found a way to exploit them yet... but I'm trying.

I'm still trying to develop a good feel for the nation. If anyone else has found some way that it shines, let us know.

[ywl]

Originally posted by Truper:
To me Tien Chi magic seems very... muddled. Examples: The Celestial Masters are best at water magic, though their nation is neither underwater nor cold-loving. Their home province does not provide an income of water gems. One of their national specials is summoning Celestial Soldiers, which requires an Air 2 Astral 1 mage, but they do not have any such mages until/unless a Celestial Master gets his random pick in air. A couple of people have mentioned their national heroes - but another of their national specials is that they get province defence for free in provinces with Order, so it seems natural to want to maximize Order which of course means they are very unlikely to see any of the heroes. In my curent test game, I'm playing them with order +3, I am on turn 19, and have yet to get an event of any kind (random events are rare), much less a hero, although I did take luck +1 partially in hope of seeing them. Celestial masters have intrinsic fire magic, and not intrinsic earth magic, but their home province does not provide a fire gem income while it does provide an earth gem income. The likelyhood that a CM has a lot of paths at 1 but only water at 2 makes them terrible site searchers.

Their most interesting troops are all expensive and hideously resource intensive, making them something of an Ulm of the East. You really want lots of order, lots of productivity and lots of administration, which is going to leave damn few design points for the pretender or anything else.

In short, I have no clue how to play these guys But I am working on it.

I took order 0 (or -1) and luck +3. I got all three before turn 30 (or 20, I've forgotten . Random increase of local defense is nice but I don't find them very useful. Spending 1 to 2 gold on each province can be easily afforded.

Thier units are not resource intensive...

Their heavy horseman is 25 gold and 28 resource. It is equivalent to Emerald Guards. They don't fight as well, but they shoot, charge and run away fast if things don't go their way. I don't mind using them as the bulk of my army.

The higher protection imperial footman is 13/18 and imperial guard is 15/21 - neither is cheap but quite affordable. The cheapest archers are 10/9 - not that much worse than Man's Longbow (12/6) while their composite bow is comparable.

Red guard is 70/42. I don't find them very impressive. But comparing to the other holy cavalries (Knight of the Chalice, Black Templar), I guess you can say that they're at least cheaper (but weak).

I think Tien-Chi regular army units have among the best combinations.

As you said, they do get funny magic choices. The way following the Water is supposingly inspired by Chinese philosophy. It's a superficial way to put it but well it's just a game. Yes, I'm Chinese .

Master of the Way give you one water and thus quickness. They also have one random pick - quite a good buy for secondary mage. I'm still thinking how to use them effectively. Frozen Heart will be a possibility but that spell is not very destructive. Celestial Master is hard to use. I don't know how yet.

The three heroes of Tien-Chi are:
Ho Hsien-Ku: 2 nature, 1 air, heal afflictions, ethereal, flight and immortal.
Lu Tung-Pi: 1 fire, 1 air, 2 water, 3 astral, 3 holy, flight, yes and also immortal.
Li Tieh-Kuai: 2 death, 2 astral, 2 air, another immortal and your Celestial Solider Summoner.

[ywl]

BTW, does anybody know how you can summon the "Demon of the Heavenly River" with Tien-Chi? The monster is there but I cannot get any mage to cast it.

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by ywl:
BTW, does anybody know how you can summon the "Demon of the Heavenly River" with Tien-Chi? The monster is there but I cannot get any mage to cast it.

A celestial master should be able to cast it. Some of the national summons for Tien Chi requires that random skill turn out a certain way.

[ November 19, 2003, 23:45: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

[ywl]

Originally posted by johan osterman:

quote:

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Originally posted by ywl:
BTW, does anybody know how you can summon the "Demon of the Heavenly River" with Tien-Chi? The monster is there but I cannot get any mage to cast it.

A celestial master should be able to cast it. Some of the national summons for Tien Chi requires that random skill turn out a certain way.

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I used an rainbow mage pretender with level 2 in everything, excpet 4 in astral. Even she can't cast it. Do you have to be a Celestial Master to cast the spell?