What's the verdict on archers? - Page 2

#11 November 20th, 2003, 05:35 AM

Archers would be more useful if you could have an "Advance and Fire" command along with troops. It would allow the shorter range units more versitility as well as a few different approaches.

Also a Hold command on Units that you could more easily (ab)use. Right now there is only 1 option with Hold and Fire, you can't hold longer to take advantage of missle fire and in general your Archers with their accuracy are firing on your own troops more often than not if you are routing the armies.

I don't mind not being able to target commander/mages with archers but I do not not like the fact that if you have any archers they either act very idiotic, or if they are long range (Longbow, xbows) they will consistantly fire at the worst possible range even as your army moves forward.

PvK · #12 November 20th, 2003, 05:42 AM

Archers can be very effective. They also often goof up and kill your own men. If you're careful, you can usually avoid killing more of your own men than the enemy. However, I happen to get rather annoyed by them shooting my own guys - as I've said before, fixing this is at the top of my wish list, and the only thing that really bugs me.

PvK

Gandalf Parker · #13 November 20th, 2003, 06:00 AM

I just realized something I havent tried. My usual arrangment is an infantry front line and an archer second line. The infantry often has hold-and-attack or sometimes attack-closest

But a common historical situation would have been an archer front line set to fire at closest, and an infantry second line set to charge thru on attack-closest. Hmmmmm deserves testing

#14 November 20th, 2003, 06:29 AM

I've tried it Gandalf. If you do; your main line gets butchered by enemy archers or cavalry (if they have any). You do have to position everything exactly just right and it would work, if the archers moved forward when an area is 'cleared' or safe.

You *can* put a small core of HI in the middle front as far as they go as the archerbait, then put in the top or bottom just a pixel back your archer patrol with another unit behind them for their 'front line' and it works fairly decently; but once your main infantry get forward, they will still get massacared, even if you chaincast Aim on the stupid bastards.

trebuchet · #15 November 20th, 2003, 10:05 AM

I haven't tried this exactly, but something close enough that I'm convinced it's feasible.

Exercise: take javelin-equipped light infantry, position them far up to the front, with your heavy infantry staggered just slightly back. LI orders to fire closest, HI ordered to hold and attack closest. The javelin volleys are usually about done around the time your HI engages. If the LI does happen to get engaged too quickly, depending on their morale they will either stick fast (and your HI comes in from the flank), or break and run. The fleeing LI will often take only minimal casualties, leading the enemy troops on a wild goose chase.

But in either event, a close range javelin volley can be devastating to independents which normally would put up a tough fight.

Then again, Ermor/Pythium LI is probably superior, so your mileage may vary.

NTJedi · #16 November 20th, 2003, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
Have you ever seen a zombie die in real life from blood loss, or having a vital organ pierced by an arrow? No? Me neither.

-cherry

I think its very kool the Saber has "seen a zombie die in real life" !

I think it would be awesome just to see one... I guess my city is boring.

HJ · #17 November 20th, 2003, 11:25 AM

Missiles will get much more interesting after the patch when "fire and flee" command won't mean that they will end up in a neighbouring province. Then we'll be able to utilize the first few volleys, which are the most important, and avoid the slaughter that happens with chasing routers.

Btw, I wonder what will happen with xbows and arbalests. Will they be able to shoot twice before retreating, or will those turns when they reload also count, and they'll only shoot once? The former would definitely be more attractive.

Taqwus · #18 November 20th, 2003, 07:02 PM

With "Flaming Arrows", massed archers can be useful against even the seasonal spirits and other low-prot ethereals.
Flaming might not stack with other effects, 'tho; I have yet to see my undead archers burn somebody with their Banefire Bows even with Flaming Arrows on.

Gandalf Parker · #19 November 21st, 2003, 02:48 AM

I always thought that fire and flee should be fire and pull back. If I wanted them to actually flee then I would set it that way on their commander, not on them.

Hmmm does anyone know if "guard commander" with shooters amounts to the same thing as "fire at closest"? That would give some nice flexibility in an archer unit by controlling them with the commanders script. Attack one round (run up close), hold or fire, hold or fire, hold or fire, hold or fire, stay behind units (which would make him pull back but not leave)

NewSubject: I need to figure out what to put on the command line to get an icon on my desktop to go into a battlesim game the fastest. Straight into a game called BattleSIm using the mini.map, no intro, no fades, no music, low graphics for fast menus? or hi graphics for slow battles?

[ November 20, 2003, 12:49: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

StarTux · #20 November 21st, 2003, 07:14 AM

Anyone seen the difference with short bow vs longbow? LongBows seem to be more accurate, but then Knights of Avalon were ping down the enemy quite efficiently...