Please Help Me Tune My Man

[PvK]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
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PROPHET FOR SALE, PROPHET FOR SALE! For a meagre 200 gold you will also get this army of fine men! Delivered right on your doorstep. Buy him today, only one remains!

I was wondering if you do make a mercenary into a prophet, and let someone else hire it, does it then spread your dominion wherever its new employers send it?

PvK

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by PvK:

quote:

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Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
...
PROPHET FOR SALE, PROPHET FOR SALE! For a meagre 200 gold you will also get this army of fine men! Delivered right on your doorstep. Buy him today, only one remains!

I was wondering if you do make a mercenary into a prophet, and let someone else hire it, does it then spread your dominion wherever its new employers send it?
PvK

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I think we tested that in Dom1 and no, it didnt. It was interesting to get 2 prophets.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by apoger:
I avoid Vine men/ogres as they eat up too much mage-time to cast.

I tend to agree, although with drain I still forge an Ivy Crown or two and use idle bards or druids to summon vine things occasionally. My main use for the low nature mages is still to give relief to my battle mages though.

Don't invest in wardens, they are not very worthwhile as "bless effect" troops (IMHO).

Hmmm, I won't agree with you on this. Warden may have lost their +3 to strength and attack in Doms 2, but I think air shielding and lightning protection would more than make up for this. My air-9 Virtue example (still untested, I admit) should have an econ as strong as yours with the same drain setting, despite having growth+2 only, due to her dominion spreading faster. You could argue that raising Wizard Towers in rich provinces would help you keeping the edge, but I won't buy it - the ROI is way too slow to justify their building as a purely economical decision.

Of course I'd lost the impact of a strong supercombattant, but now the Wardens are worth building (and consequently the Fortified City also is) and an air-9 Virtue isn't useless in the battlefield either. Eek, depending on who you're up against, and with minimal equipment and buff spells, she can even be used as a meleer. Have you ever tried what a lucky/ethereal/air shielded/mistformed/mirrored air-9 Virtue (needs one astral mage obviously, but you'll get one eventually) can do if you have her fly in the rear of the enemy to wreak havoc with showers of shockwaves? I'd say it's as impressive as what an astral Manticore can do.

This is strickly from a MP point of view.

You should always be using your crones for some magic beatdown; yes.

But psychology is just as much a part of diplomacy as position and power. And a numbers and scouting (and in turn opponents scouting you) play a large role in when and where you will be attacked.

That is why I consider 2 or 3 Crones on Vine Duty if they are not needed in a desperate fashion, essential to having a quick reinforcement/Call of Wind/of the Wild beatdown force as well as a psychological gauging of numbers by your opponent.

[apoger]

>Hmmm, I won't agree with you on this. Warden may have lost their +3 to strength and attack in Doms 2, but I think air shielding and lightning protection would more than make up for this.

I am sure many will disagree with me on this, but in my opinion there are few sacred troops worth going out of your way for. They are expensive and slow to build. In order to justify their value I demand serious firepower or resiliency. So far the only sacred troops that I like are Hydra and Niefel Giants (and I'm not a fan of the themes with which they are attached).

If I can get some "bless effect" while designing my pretenders I certainly do it. However I do not design my pretenders to do blessing effects as their primary purpose (so far...).

The air-9 Virture would have impressed me more in Dom1, however Wrathful Skies has been toned down enough that air-9 no longer equals an instant army killer. Partial missile and lightning protection for Wardens does nothing for me as it leaves them as nothing more than very expensive HI. I'd rather have a Fire-9 Dragon. Such a dragon could go out and take provinces early, and thus expand the economy. Plus the Wardens would get an impressive bonus to hit and 8AP fire damage (extra attack and damage is a synergistic effect).

However I recommend the "astral manticore" for new players that ask for advice, since it's effectively a tutorial showing how to develop combat oriented gods. It allows for fast expansion. Provides good defence until the late game. And can devour many other pretenders in a melee fight (like the virtue or dragon from above). It's my standard suggestion since it's easy and strong.

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by apoger:
in my opinion there are few sacred troops worth going out of your way for. They are expensive and slow to build. In order to justify their value I demand serious firepower or resiliency. So far the only sacred troops that I like are Hydra and Niefel Giants (and I'm not a fan of the themes with which they are attached).

I do think you have overlooked the obvious here in leaving out Serpent Dancers. Maybe I haven't played far enough into the game to have a clear view but from my testing C'tis is the best bless effects race I have used. Actually the tuned C'tis "Dancers of Death" is the best race I've used in Dom2 - but then I avoid the traditional power races.

Other decent sacred creatures for bless effects are Machakan HunterSpiders, Van, Tuatha, Celestial Soldiers plus awhole range of sacred mages who profit from reinvigoration, quickness or maybe a bit of unlife after death. I'm sure I've missed a few I've forgotten or haven't tested yet.

I know you are mourning the old Lava Warriors Alex but the new ones can be spectacular with earth9 and Abyssian mages love it to.

If I can get some "bless effect" while designing my pretenders I certainly do it. However I do not design my pretenders to do blessing effects as their primary purpose (so far...).

C'mon step outside you comfort zone Alex.

Bottom line for me is bless effects are new and we simply can't know, at this point, all the opportunities they can open up so I'm certainly going to keep trying and see what I come up with. I also have a bad feeling that Illwinter might adjust the turmoil/order/luck/misfortune in a way that wipes out dual bless effects races and many single ones so its a matter of making hay while the sun shines. I'm still bemused that so many people think you can take away 120 design points and imagine that borderline races will survive the experiance.

There is part of me that looks at a race like Pythium and says "If you are happy to give them everything why not just give more to the weak races strategies." Then again when you compare most races to Pythium its a matter of "race balence? Didn't realise there was any."

I haven't played Man main theme since I first got Dom1 so I don't have alot of useful to add other than agreeing with Nagot that the Earth Mother is a good earth bless effects god. The Cyclops is acutally the cheapest if you only want Earth9 and for all the criticism he gets is rather effective with prot 29.

Cheers

Keir

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by Keir Maxwell:
I know you are mourning the old Lava Warriors Alex but the new ones can be spectacular with earth9 and Abyssian mages love it to.

Um... have you used Abyssian mages in combat? I did in Doms I, and tried it in II, but they can't hit anything. Even at point blank range. Are you giving them all eyes of aiming or casting wind guide first? Or is this just theoretical?