Please Help Me Tune My Man

[Joonie73]

Which sacred troops do you think are justified even with their cost? I think Niefel giants are a no-brainer.

Originally posted by apoger:
>Hmmm, I won't agree with you on this. Warden may have lost their +3 to strength and attack in Doms 2, but I think air shielding and lightning protection would more than make up for this.

I am sure many will disagree with me on this, but in my opinion there are few sacred troops worth going out of your way for. They are expensive and slow to build. In order to justify their value I demand serious firepower or resiliency. So far the only sacred troops that I like are Hydra and Niefel Giants (and I'm not a fan of the themes with which they are attached).

If I can get some "bless effect" while designing my pretenders I certainly do it. However I do not design my pretenders to do blessing effects as their primary purpose (so far...).

The air-9 Virture would have impressed me more in Dom1, however Wrathful Skies has been toned down enough that air-9 no longer equals an instant army killer. Partial missile and lightning protection for Wardens does nothing for me as it leaves them as nothing more than very expensive HI. I'd rather have a Fire-9 Dragon. Such a dragon could go out and take provinces early, and thus expand the economy. Plus the Wardens would get an impressive bonus to hit and 8AP fire damage (extra attack and damage is a synergistic effect).

However I recommend the "astral manticore" for new players that ask for advice, since it's effectively a tutorial showing how to develop combat oriented gods. It allows for fast expansion. Provides good defence until the late game. And can devour many other pretenders in a melee fight (like the virtue or dragon from above). It's my standard suggestion since it's easy and strong.

[Teleolurian]

Heh. Does anyone play the Druid for anything (stealth, perhaps) if his vine summoning isn't all that great?

Wardens make for a wonderful elite troop. I haven't seen anything wrong with bless effects on them, since they seem to be the perfect platform to build on; they're fast, stealthy, and hit a lot. Air definitely seems to be a good choice; I've already seen the power of taking a very high Nature Not to mention the Warden Commander with Heroic Quickness tends to decimate things quickly; I even had some luck making him a flanker-attacking-rear instead of purchasing the very expensive Knights.

[Gandalf Parker]

Building around stealth is a subject unto itself. Players who build around visible armies tend to disregard stealth entirely since its often on units that they dont feel are worth using. To a lot of them stealth=scout.

I like stealth armies. Wardens (especially if you can add those druid archers) make a nice army. Mans ability to soften with Call of Wild/Wind makes it even better. Having stealth mages and priests is yet another step up since its so easy for them to completely setup shop in the new province.

[LordArioch]

Joonie's question is interesting, but maybe it should make another thread. I've been wondering why some sacred units seem to be overlooked. Battle vestals seem almost equivalent to serpent dancers for cheaper, get around the lack of armor somehow and they look very appealing. And it seems with any minor bless heart companions are a better deal than standard hoplites...they only cost a little more, barely more upkeep (important for such sturdy units), and with the right blessing they get signifigantly better...some fire-9 heart companions can stop and repel the enemy and then hit back in force.

[Teleolurian]

Reading through the previous Posts, I'm very thankful for Alex's (astral-based) research path- it shows me what I'm supposed to be aiming for. Does anybody have any research paths to maximise the use of Nature? Haunted Forest is a great long-term goal but I don't know what to look for early on (except Thaum-2 Haruspex).

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by LordArioch:
I've been wondering why some sacred units seem to be overlooked. Battle vestals seem almost equivalent to serpent dancers for cheaper,
...

And it seems with any minor bless heart companions are a better deal than standard hoplites

I think alot of the older players feel that the bless effects are not worth playing in most cases. In Dom1 economy dominated with growth3, prod3, order3, scales being commen. To get bless effects races you have to give up on the core of what made for a reliable Dom1 race and most seem unwilling to make that step. Playing a death scale for Abyssia was seen as a bit too radical for most in Dom1 despite the obvious synergy involved.

While I understand the value of positive dominion scales and put them to good use in Dom1 I like the bless effects because:

a) They are new
b) They create intersting combo's/synergy
c) Patching luck/misfortune, order/turmoil, may be fairly devestating for serious bless effect races so it may be now of never. Of course it may open new possibilities but Illwinter tend to make strong things weaker based on the changes from Dom1 to Dom2.

The reason I haven't looked at Battle Vestals or Heart Companions is quite simple - I don't play Arco or Pythium as they are overpowered (race balence?). While I joined Dom1 late I am a very experianced MP/PBEM player so I stick to lesser lights and leave the glamour boys for others. Having said that 1 strat move sacred troops which you can only build in your capital (ie Heart Companions) are only worth "bless effecting" so much as you can't base your game plan around them without suffering berserk snail syndrome.

You are right that there are still numerous sacred troops to try and make something out - go for it.

cheers

Keir

[ywl]

Originally posted by Teleolurian:
Reading through the previous Posts, I'm very thankful for Alex's (astral-based) research path- it shows me what I'm supposed to be aiming for. Does anybody have any research paths to maximise the use of Nature? Haunted Forest is a great long-term goal but I don't know what to look for early on (except Thaum-2 Haruspex).

Some of my personal favorite for Man:
Alteration 3 : "Protection" - better armor for your troops
Conjuration 1 : "Tangle Vine" - good supporting spell for Bard
Thaumaturgy 2 : "Haruspex" - you've mentioned it
Conjuration 3 : "Call of the Wild"
Enchantment 2 " "Personal Regeneration" - good for Super-Combatant
Conjuration 5 : "Awaken Sleeper"
Construction 4 : for "Vine Shield" and "Ring of Regeneration"
Thaumaturgy 4 : "Gift of Reason" - could be very powerful
Conjuration 6 : "Contact Lamia Queen"

Some additional nice goodies:
Enchantment 4 : "Poison Ward"
Enchantment 5 : "Foul Vapor" - a standard combo for Man, "Gift of Health"
Enchantment 6 : "Faery Trod", "Relief"

There are a few new, basic attack spell in the Evocation school. I haven't tried them yet.

While playing Man, also pay attention to Air. Try to reasearch for levels that give you good spells in both.