Is growth scale must in a long game?

Treebeard · #1 December 17th, 2003, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:
Originally posted by Treebeard:
What are those? I certainly get hit by a bunch of nasty effects with lucky 3...

They are ones that can cause the loss of a quarter of the population in one turn and so on. [/QB]

If you mean rain, then no, you get those with luck 3, and a lot. If you mean restlessness, then no again, you can get those even with luck 3. If you talking about plagues and such, then no (but they are dependent on your death scale).

I can't say one single event I haven't seen in both luck 3 and unluck 3 dominion (but a lot are dependent on your other scales).

Argitoth · #2 December 17th, 2003, 11:41 AM

I can tell you why a random event for an increase of population is plain unrealistic.

First of all, if there was an increase in population, it would mean there was more babies born this month than usual. That's completely unrealistic. More population = more population. There cannot be a random even for population growth. Even if there was a sudden increase of population, do you really think 1-month old babies can pay tax?

The only realistic event for population growth is immigration.

Immigration can be good or bad. Population increases or decreases in a province you own while decreasing or increasing in a province you do not own.

Graeme Dice · #3 December 17th, 2003, 04:17 PM

Quote:

I can't say one single event I haven't seen in both luck 3 and unluck 3 dominion (but a lot are dependent on your other scales).

The 1500 gold event is for luck 3 provinces only for example.

Chris Byler · #4 December 17th, 2003, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Argitoth:
I can tell you why a random event for an increase of population is plain unrealistic.

First of all, if there was an increase in population, it would mean there was more babies born this month than usual. That's completely unrealistic. More population = more population. There cannot be a random even for population growth. Even if there was a sudden increase of population, do you really think 1-month old babies can pay tax?

The only realistic event for population growth is immigration.

Immigration can be good or bad. Population increases or decreases in a province you own while decreasing or increasing in a province you do not own.

Well, you'd think that, wouldn't you? But in fact, the only migration-related event is emigration, population decreases in a province you own and doesn't show up anywhere else in the world.

Immigration - either from someone else's provinces or from nowhere - would be nice, but it never actually happens.

Besides, when you talk about what events would be "realistic" you forget that Dom II is a fantasy game... there's no reason you couldn't throw a handful of teeth on the ground and have citizens spring up from it (to bend a mythological example). Or every woman in the province gives birth to twins, or something fantastic like that.

ywl · #5 December 17th, 2003, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jasper:

quote:
Originally posted by ywl:

quote:
Originally posted by Jasper:
Growth +3 is certainly no where near as mandatory as Order +3 and Misfortune +3, which is both more powerfull and cheaper.

I don't use this combo. I'll see how bad I'll do in my game.
I'm curious to hear the outcome, but there are so many other factors involved in multiplayer (e.g. opponent skill, faction mathup, multiplayer dynamics, etc.) that it will be difficult to tell what effect anyone particular thing has had on how well you do, especially since you can't easily try the same scenario with a different Pretender.

IMHO the relative benefits of scales are much more easily compared in single player games, where you can more carefully control the environment.

For me it was as simple as comparing Order 3 + Misfortune 3 Pangaea, vs. the same Pretender with Turmoil 3 + Luck 3. This should be biased towards T+L, as Pangaea gets extra beneft from both, but for my test O+M was far more effective.

L+T in my experience can keep up with O+M, but only if you get extraordinarily lucky.

I don't like negative scales in general. So, I don't usually go with Turmoil and it's more a choice of O-0/L+3 or O+3/L-0. I think the rational choice should be the order+3.

But, I like the randomness of luck events - just love feeling lucky

. When fancy striked me or when the nation doesn't need too much gold, I would go with Luck+3. Sometimes, a random animist (got two as Tien Chi the other day

) or air-mage could go a long way for your game. Not to mention a few lucky positioning of castles or temples...

Who knows? In Dom 1, I once got a "Ring of Sorcery" from a luck event! And I've heard of a story getting a "Soul Contract" from another player! These items worth more than the loss of a thousand gold income for non-astral or non-blood nation.

But, the bottom line remains: it's just a game. I don't mind playing against "conventional wisdom" for the fun of it

.

Treebeard · #6 December 17th, 2003, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:
I can't say one single event I haven't seen in both luck 3 and unluck 3 dominion (but a lot are dependent on your other scales).

The 1500 gold event is for luck 3 provinces only for example.

Okay, I should have said bad events

Argitoth · #7 December 17th, 2003, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Byler:
Or every woman in the province gives birth to twins, or something fantastic like that.

Babies cannot pay tax. Lets say population starts paying tax when they are 20. 20 years is 240 turns. Not gunna happen.

Population growth through magical means IS realistic to Dominions standards. Every game is based on realism. There isn't one game in the world made totally off realism. There's not a book, game, movie, or ANYTHING without realism. There are standard rules in every fantasy and standard rules in every "non-realistic" thing.

[ December 17, 2003, 21:31: Message edited by: Argitoth ]