Blood?

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by apoger:
Early expansion must be done in order to fuel the blood ramp-up later. Same goes for other magics as well. Now that the elemental summons are weakened (compared to Dom1) there is no very early game magic to rush for. This changes the magic dynamic a lot. Better to expand first, then power down on magic work once things are a bit more secure.

National spells have become alot more significant. Panic and Terror being two spells I have usd alot in Dom2. Eagle Eyes is my most commen early spell target and a pretender can often knock that off quickly. For Ctis Raise Dead is still something to keep a serious eye. In general I agree that it was Seasonal Spirits that defined early magic use/abuse in Dom1 and in Dom2 there is no comparable must have early. However there are still a range of useful spells to go for and oddities such as Anathament Salamanders with eyes of aiming casting fireball or air mages with lightning bolts or Astral with its various nasty low level battle spells. Its not hard at all to knock off a moderate level of magic if you are not using your pretender as a SC early and get a useful dish of magic to play with early in the non-blood paths. Sometimes it makes a big difference but mostly its the national spells that I have made a big difference with early.

Cheers

Keir

[Saber Cherry]

Blood Solution

Yay! I got it!

Blood empowerment could be cheaper than other empowerments. I've thought a Dousing Rod should be usable by any mage, not just blood mages. But if not... then since mortals are much more tuned to raw blood energy than other forms of magical energy, why not make blood empowerment much cheaper? Like... say... half price, or a straight 15 slave reduction for every level, or maybe 30 slaves instead of 50 slaves for level-1 blood.

I've also found it nearly impossible to start a blood program soon enough to have it affect the game, even with a large investment, which is sad.

Or... to keep the game more thematic... simply giving all blood races a cheap blood mage would solve the problem... which is, of course, that blood is too slow to make a difference except in long games, and that being a "blood nation" does not really help.

-Cherry

[Jasper]

IMHO this isn't a solution, but makes the situation worse. Why should it be easier for everyone to get into blood magic? It's already pretty easy, considering how cost effective blood hunting with scouts is.

It doesn't take much effort to start summoning Ice Devils, which are effective. Hordes from Hell is even easier to get.

[ December 30, 2003, 10:05: Message edited by: Jasper ]

[PhilD]

Originally posted by Jasper:
IMHO this isn't a solution, but makes the situation worse. Why should it be easier for everyone to get into blood magic? It's already pretty easy, considering how cost effective blood hunting with scouts is.

It doesn't take much effort to start summoning Ice Devils, which are effective. Hordes from Hell is even easier to get.

What's the rant about Horde from Hell? I saw it mentioned as being such a strong spell, but from what I've seen so far, Imps are pretty lousy, and it doesn't look like 25 of them will do much damage to even a low defense Province. Is it really worth the 30 slaves?

(Caveat: I'm mostly playing SP, with lowish AIs - if the spell becomes especially useful vs human opponents or higher AI levels, I wouldn't know)

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by Jasper:
It doesn't take much effort to start summoning Ice Devils, which are effective. Hordes from Hell is even easier to get.

This just doesn't fit my experiance Jasper. I find it takes alot of effort and as Saber says the game is generally fundamenally over by the time the goodies start to pour out. Hmm lets see I've pretty much won the game now but my Ice Devils have finally arrived. If I had never bothered I could have won it well back. This is how I'm finding it SP. Still I have to give Alex's scout hunting a good try. Not looking forward to it due to the micro-management.

cheers

Keir

[Truper]

This just doesn't fit my experiance Jasper. I find it takes alot of effort and as Saber says the game is generally fundamenally over by the time the goodies start to pour out. Hmm lets see I've pretty much won the game now but my Ice Devils have finally arrived. If I had never bothered I could have won it well back

I'm curious about this. What maps are you playing, vs how many opponents, and when is the game "fundamentally over"? I've had great fun with blood magic, and I use it because I do think its fun. Its also not so large an investment, depending on how you work it, so I'm also puzzled by the if I'd never bothered I could have won well back part.

[PvK]

I think it has a lot to do with skill level and play style. Keir talks about playing each nation several times, etc. He's an extremely experienced player. I've been putting most of my free gaming time into Doms I and Doms II for months, and the two games of Doms II I've actually finished of Doms II, ended because the AI wiped me off the map. In the other game, I think I may likely win, but I am still finding it rather challenging (and extremely enjoyable) and I'm having a lot of fun with the blood magic, which is seeming useful and worthwhile. I find that a single blood-1 hunter who now has 3 +1 blood items on him, producing about 9 blood slaves per turn from a 40,000 population province with 60-70% taxes keeping the unrest more or less constant without patrolling, and still providing a good gold income.

It's true I'm focusing more on having fun than trying to maximize my competetiveness, so I don't mean to contest that Blood might not be very efficient compared to other choices, especially for short/small competetive games with humans. Seems like one could generate a whole ton of blood income though if one really focused on that, though.

PvK